What do most of you use for Brake fluids? 1) Castrol SRF 2) Motul RBF600 3) ATE Super Blue 4) others... I understand that products like Castrol and Motul are the ultimate for heavy track usage but are they also suitable for daily street use and some occasional track use as well? I am considering to flush the brake system soon and we are looking for some reliable lesser-hygroscopic fluids that would sustain long term (1-2 years) daily usage. I have heard that silicon based fluids have the tendency to 'gel' up and may 'block' or 'choke' the calipers when it is not been used for a while. Is this true? I am not concern about price, I just simply want the best technology available. I appreciate your opinions, comments and advice. Thanks in advance.
I know that the guys at Competizione put Motul RBF600 in my 360, and believe they do the same for all others.
Maybe 20 yrs ago Road and Track had an article on silicone brake fluids. Because the additives are very different, if you mix silicone and glycol-based fluids you stand an excellent chance of having some seals get hard or turn to mush and leak. At that time, if you switched to silicone fluid you had to disassemble your brake system to get all the glycol fluid out first. I have not heard anything to the contrary since. Also, silicone is inherently spongy and the bubbles of air that will quickly float to the top of standard fluid take much longer in silicone. So you have to be VERY careful to pour without making bubbles. Even then you will tend to have a spongy brake pedal because of silicone's sponginess. My Pantera had silicone fluid when I bought it 20 yrs ago and it has been fine, but most people feel it's only for museum / collection cars that are rarely driven.
Castrol SRF. I used to use RBF600, but it requires bleeding after 6 months. SRF stays strong much longer, just bleeding the calipers (10 minutes), not the entire system. SRF has a higher wet boiling point and I have never experienced fluid overheat with it. I did experience overheated RBF600, but a system bleeding took care of it. Neither SRF or RBF600 are silicon based. The stock Ferrari fluid is not too good, I got a mushy brake pedal on my first test drive around the Canyons here. My RBF600 experience was on a Porsche GT3. I don't recommend ATE Super Blue, due to the lower boiling point (both dry and wet), and the stains it leaves in the reservoir and brake lines.
So it is indeed true for silicon based fluids from 2 decades ago. I would presume modern brake fluids such as SRF which is silicon esther formulated by modern technology now. Would it still exhibit any negative attributes from before?
Is it suitable for daily spirited driving in tropical humid weather conditions? Please advice how long is it estimated to last before we have to bleed/flush it again? Thanks again.
Good question and worth looking into. I'll try bobistheoilguy.com It could be that I could switch to the new (5.1) fluid in the Pantera and get some brake pedal stiffening without having to rebuild everything.
I actually mix the Super Blue 50:50 with clear fluid because, I agree, at full strength strength it has far too much dye in it. Whether DOT 4 fluids are adequate re boiling point depends on use. Most people do not track their car and it should be fine. What do Ferrari dealers use?
If money is no object then without question Castrol SRF is the best. One of the highest if not the highest dry boiling point, and THE highest wet boiling point. I have used it in my last 5 years of racing 360 Challenge and 430 Challenge. It's expensive compared to other fluids but IMHO very small price to pay for the best there is. Followed by Motul RBF660 as a good alternative at lower cost. Then by Motus RBF600 or Brembo LCF600 a bit cheaper still. For street use, you don't really need the extreme performance of any of these fluids. And if you change your fluid for every track day you don't need the high wet boiling point of the SRF either. The way I look at it is for $80/liter you can get the best there is, so why bother to consider anything else. You need at most 1.5 liter to flush out a system.
Super Blue is a very average brake fluid that was a very up to date product in 1975. Time passed it by not long after disc brakes became all the rage. Many inexpensive, commonly available fluids easily outperform it. Silicone brake fluids are not approved buy the TUV and for good reason. It isn't suitable for a gokart, much less a real live car. The only reason it is approved in the USA is because it was a Dow Chemical invention. If the DOT was not for sale we would not allow it here either. If you want rusty brake components and extreme compressibility when hot it is a good choice. It is true it does not damage paint but if you are concerned about that, don't pour it on the paint. SRF is the best but at a very big price. RBF600 is an outstanding fluid but it is true it does not have the wet boiling point SRF does.
If the car is constantly not driven for extended periods of time like one month, would the Castrol SRF brake fluid 'gel' up? What could be the problems that might be the cause of this occurance? I have heard of such an abnomality from fellow enthusiasts who have the privilege of owning several high performance cars in their garage but not driving them often enough.
I have never had any issues of SRF turning into gel or sludge or discoloration. Some of my cars sit at the track unused for couple of months at a time and I've never had any problems. Then again if the car is unused for more than a couple of months, the system always gets flushed with new fluid before I take it out on track. I would do this for track use regardless of which fluid I use. I also use SRF in my 550 & 360 street cars and they some times sit for many months without use. Last brake fluid change was 2 years ago. Hmmm this reminds me I have to tell dealer to use SRF as both cars are in the shop for servicing now. Are others telling you SRF turns into gel? I've never heard that before, so you'll have to ask them for the details. Maybe they are referring to some other type of silicon fluid turning into gel.
The possibility of SRF turning to gel could probably be the cause of the old glycol-based fluid not being flushed out properly? (As described by Pantdino)...but if SRF is not silicon based, it should not be a problem right? How do we ensure that the old fluids are flushed out internally and ensure that there are no more residues in the piston and seals? Is there any special cleaning agent or just use compressed air?
SRF is recognized by experts as the best there is. It is used by many racing teams. I am just a satisfied user of the product. So I am not qualified to tell you if it will or will not gel under certain specific circumstances. It's never happened to me. I have never heard anyone using it said it happened to them. And it's not something I am remotely concerned about as I would not let the car sit for years without maintenance. What I don't understand is why would you want to pay top dollar for the best brake fluids such as SRF or RBF660 for the purpose of not changing fluids for 1 to 2 years? Fluid performance starts to degrade the minute you open the bottle as it starts to absorb moisture in the air. So the actual boiling point gradually degrades from the advertised dry boiling point down to the lower wet boiling point. So if you want the best brake performance, it seems to make more sense to change your fluid once every year. And any good quality fluid will do. If your brake system is in good condition, then a simple good old fashioned thorough bleeding of the system is all you need to switch over to the new fluid brand.
I have never seen SRF discoloration, because it is indeed transparent. I have not seen it getting jelly either. I flush the entire system once a year (using a Motif power bleeder), I use SRF in all my street cars. Yes, it is expensive compared to other fluids, but at $75/bottle, and with just two bottles you can bleed the entire system and still have fluid left for 10 track days. I bleed the calipers every other track day, my Scuderia has two track days only, and I flush the system once a year. I don't think it is expensive (I buy cases of 6 bottles). Expensive and Scary is a mushy brake pedal on Los Angeles Crest Highway due to spirited driving with the stock Ferrari fluid.
I am sorry if you got my message the wrong way. Just like engine oil, tranny oil, brake fluids, tyres, etc...it would be good to know how long this products are capable of maintaining a decent level of optimum performance/protection with reasonable utility and exploitation. But with this info of performance expectancy at the back of our mind, I always religiously opt to replace them prudently at just above half this 'life'....but subject to several other conditions, this life may be shorten drastically. If you know me, I have always change all fluids according to the manufacturer's recomendation every interval during its maintenance checks but am interested to upgrade my choice of performance fluids this time to anticipate future track day events. With the level of stress this machines are subjected to under extreme conditions, it is better to be safe than sorry. In my enquiries and internet research, I came across this 'gel' dilemma hence my concern. As this issue has possible never been discussed in this forum, I found it good if everyone could share their experience and possibly save lives. Thanks very much for all who have chimed in their expert opinion on this matter.
Just curious what is a Motif power bleeder? Is there a link to this product or method? Can it be used to flush and also to bleed as well? Yes, i totally agree with you about expenses as a result of a mushy brake pedal.
I've got a MINI (not a Ferrari) but I've got a little knowledge on some of these fluids that might be helpful. I've got small wheels and small brakes, so heat dissipation is a huge problem with my setup. Although I'd uprated to ventilated and grooved disks and kevlar pads, I encountered a problem where I once simultaneously boiled the fluid (generic DOT 5.1) and set the pads on fire. From what I've been reading, the best street and light-track fluids are: Motul RBF-600: 312°C/593°F dry and 216°C/420°F wet. Castrol SRF: 310°C/590°F dry and 270°C/518°F wet. Endless RF-650: 323°C/613°F dry and 218°C/424°F wet. Castrol SRF seems to be the best all-rounder from a technical perspective, but it's very expensive! Endless RF-650 performs the best when fresh and dry, but unfortunately sucks in moisture much more rapidly than the others and quickly goes off (requiring much more frequent replacement). Motul RBF-600 seems to be the best buy... similarly low wet boiling point to Endless RF-650 but doesn't go off as quickly and is only £13 a bottle (for those of us in the UK). I ended up changing my generic kevlar pads to Brembos, changed the damaged brake lines for stainless steel, and uprated the fluid to Motul RBF-600. Despite my unfavourable setup with no cooling, alloys that are small and trap heat, small disks that don't dissipate heat very well, abrasive pads, I've not managed to boil this fluid. It is exceptional and has a great feel. As I said, it's not Ferrari experience, but I hope it helps. All the best, Andrew.
Jezz! You obviously roast that little mini of yours! Reminds me of how I used to take pride in seeing the front discs on my old Nissan 200SX glowing red after a spirited drive
Kind of you to share your valuable feedback. Kudos to you for driving the car off its wheels.....hope you will own a Ferrari soon.
