What collector cars to buy?

At the higher end of your range:

Porsche 356 Pre-A or 356A Carrera Speedster: Motorsports icon, rare, great parts/service support. Have held up well in this recession, eligible for the best vintage events, maintenance is even cheaper than a vintage Ferrari.

Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona coupe: Another icon, last of the handmade Ferrari V12s made under Enzo's watch. A bargain compared to the 275 GTB. The downside is that you can spend a lot on service/repair that could erode your profits. The upside is that you get to own a legend. Prices have been soft, so possibly a good time to buy.

1973 Porsche 911 RS 2.7: An icon you can actually drive, with performance to match most modern cars. Just be sure you get an expert to inspect it, because many of the Lightweight panels and components are uber-expensive and sometimes replaced with Touring panels. Most old cars aren't a real joy to drive fast, but the long-nose 911s are an exception.

Probably others, but these came to mind first. Also they are known cars, so when you sell there's always someone looking. Just stick with pre-1974 sports cars with motorsports ties.

Bill Noon at Symbolic might have some thoughts on this - he's on FChat.

 

Do you want to put it away in the wrapper? Or, do you just want to use it occasionally? Or, do you like doing events such as rallies or going to the track? In that price range, you have a lot of flexibility.

Personally, I've gotten away from street cars and am concentrating on race cars, but that's because I like the track. Our race cars have definitely appreciated, which is a nice perq of ownership, but I can't say that we ever went in thinking we'd make money on the back end. If you're game, though, you might consider a 430GT car. I think you might even be able to get one UNDER $200K if you wait a bit longer and play hard ball. To run it, you'll need some spares (you have the trailer, though), so budget accordingly.

But, if you're talking more broadly, there are plenty (too many, really) of fun and cool cars. I do like the CLK DTM at Canepa ( http://www.canepacollection.com/detail-2005-mercedes~benz-amg_mercedes_benz-clk_dtm-used-5096220.html ).

You might also have a look at Fantasy Junction's site. I've been urging my best friend to go in on a pre-'60 car so we can go do the Colorado Grand with it. Just for the experience of it.

The difficulty is that it's just like gambling (as an investment banker, you no doubt understand). You can buy something relatively inexpensively and hope it goes up, enjoying it in the meantime, or you can buy something relatively more investment grade. Can't go wrong with a race car with a provenance. There are a few interesting P and F cars in that range...

CW

 

I'd look for an authentic and correct '63 Corvette coupe equipped with the Z06 option group. It included the 360hp Fuel Injected 327, up-rated brakes, suspension, exhaust and fully kitted cars have the 36 Gallon fuel tank.

Or

A '65/'66 Corvette Big Block "Tanker" with the 36 Gallon fuel tank.

Or

A '61 Corvette 315hp Fuel Injected

Or

A '68/'69 L88

You could look for a '67 L88, but they only made 20, with just 140 surviving today and authenticated ones without famous names or race wins in their history were asking mid-high six figures not long ago...

I always thought collecting Apollo Astronaut Corvettes* would be interesting, but it looks to be really difficult to actually do.


*As US Government employees the Astronauts couldn't accept gifts, but they were extended "special pricing" on GM cars. Most of the guys drove Corvettes throughout the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs.

 

Closer to $500k I think but I bet a 288 GTO will close in on 7 figures in the next 5 years.

 

Either a historic F1 or CART car...or a nostalgia AA/FD - check this out:

http://www.canepacollection.com/detail-1964-tognotti_speed_shop-top_fuel-dragster-used-5911227.html

 

Ford GT doesn't seem to be depreciating.

 

Your getting a widely varied response. What do you want besides money? Bercause these are rarely about how much you are going to make.

I will say that the best part of owning a Daytona is just saying Ferrari Daytona. Then it's the sound (to die for), then the look and finally driving it, The RS on the other hand is different. It is driving the car, then the sound, then the looks. One man's opinion.

Depending on what you want I will suggest either, and I'll have both again. Except I'll go clone on the 911. It's so easy to do. You won't be frowned upon and will have a teriffic car at an easier price point to achieve. You just won't retire off it in 5 years.

I also am temted by F1s.

More info please. What do you like? 1968 Shelby GT500KRs are under $200K.

 

And you'll be eligible for significant events like the Elks car wash.

 

i hate to say it... but... any of the shelbys would probably be good property... especially when the old man goes... I know its terrible to say... terrible... but its true... the prices of those cars will likely see a gain in value. You could get a nice 289 cobra... or you could get any of the mustangs... R models... 65 GT350... GT500s etc... I know of a really really good GT500 convertible... 1 of 3 car...

I would also say that daytona would be good property... as would a dino. I personally feel these are undervalued... I think if you wanted to hang on to a car for a LONG time, i personally feel the 550s are getting at there bottom and I personally believe these cars will bring good money in the distant future.

I would steer clear of most muscle cars... and wouldn't touch a mopar with a ten foot pole at this point... They were grossly inflated and I think that is going to leave a bad taste in peoples mouth for some time...

Id say the first year 911 especially if you could find a 901... would be good... the right 356 as well...

I know it sounds crazy... but... I would also by an R spec mazda rx-7 and a 97 integra type R. Get the cleanest lowest mile cars you can find and mothball them... buying both cars would cost you no more than 40k... and I bet they will bring you back a very good return for the money invested.

Another set of cars that might be worth some money in the future... this one is a bit sketchy though... Diablo. Diablos are pretty damn cheap... and are worth far more in parts than as a driveable car at this point. Find a rare, desirable diablo with all the books keys, history low miles etc... and I think you could have something there...

 

First, assume that you aren't going to make any money off of a car as an investment.

When you consider the insurance, maintenance and repairs and eventual restoration of a classic car, if you drive it at all, it will most likely cost you money.

Buy what you like and enjoy driving and something that you can get into the history of and enjoy it. If you get more for it than you have in it, be pleasantly suprised and go on to the next one.

 

I agree with Bullfighter on the 2.7 RS. I've been halfheartedly following the 2.7 RS market for a couple of years and now that I have some extra "car money" to play with since recently selling my race cars I've become more serious about it. If you find a well documented example I'd have a hard believing it won't make money. If that car interests you I have a bunch of info on the 2.7 RS market which I'd be happy to compile & send it over.

I also concur with Bullfighter's recommendation about Symbolic Motors. I know a couple of RS's have gone through there fairly recently. In any event, they always have a number of well documented classic cars in their inventory - have a look, something might catch your eye.

I'd also look at a 246 Dino & Daytona. All three are drivers which seem to be safe places to park your money for a few years.

 

Not sure about the Integra or RX-7 as serious investment/collector cars. I think they're of an era that will be pretty much be shrugged off by future collectors as irrelevant. I.e., lots of plastic, built by robots, and with performance that has been superceded by a herd of newer cars. The Datsun 240Z is a collector car, and is significant in several ways, but I haven't seen it make the leap to the big leagues -- and for $200K+ you're going to want rarity, heritage, historic significance, aesthetics, etc. Nostalgia alone doesn't sustain six figure prices forever, probably explaining much of the muscle car fad.

I think we saw an historic "sweet spot" in motoring that began in the 1950s and ended in the early 1970s as bumper/safety and emission regs coincided with a less-than-timeless sense of style. (What's your favorite collector car from 1976? Corvette? Porsche 924? Cadillac Eldo convertible? etc.)

550s are getting cheaper, but if you're looking in the $200K-$400K market today you probably want a blue chip car. Most people like the 550's aesthetic better than the TR that preceded it, but it's a car with zero competition/racing heritage and lots of aging electronics and expensive proprietary parts, which will keep prices soft for many years, possibly forever.* It's my favorite post-1990 Ferrari, and I'd gladly have one in the garage, but not as an investment.


* Obviously we don't know about "forever", but my own bet is that modern cars will never be restorable the way a Merc 300SL, Porsche 356 Speedsters/Carreras, BMW 507, Aston DB4, etc., are. As time goes on I don't see enthusiasts ever losing interest in these. On the lower end of the scale, I could see a Series 1.5 Jag E-Type Roadster being a nice $100K car that should hold value well: huge appeal, pre-smog/bumper simplicity, known icon, great parts/service support.

 

Interesting thoughts on the Japanese cars. When one thinks about collectable cars the mind doesn't immediately leap to Japanese cars. The thing with them is there are so darn few that haven't already been modified to death, riced out, etc. In another 10 years or so there will be very few factory original examples left, and the age bracket that grew up loving these cars will be in their peak earning years. I think there could be some excellent investment options out there with RX-7's, Supras, 300ZX's, Integras, etc.

 

Ford GT

F40

Diablo seems to be doing well

Muscle cars will probably go back up

Cars that appeal to the masses

Cars that are too esotric will always have a smaller market

 

I actually agree with you on the Integra Type-R. It's a rare car that received a lot of bespoke engineering and parts in its manufacture. It's also perhaps the greatest production FWD performance car in terms of precision response and driver feedback. A few of today's hot hatches are quicker and grippier, but even a Mini Cooper S JCW doesn't provide the intimacy in its driving experience.

 

Probably the only Japanese collector car would be this one. http://jalopnik.com/5570768/mint-toyota-2000gt-for-375000

 

Surprised no one said 1991 NSX and E30 M3...

 

What about the NSX ?

 

Definitely.

 

Probably because neither of those play in the $200K-$400K league.

 

I would buy a F40, if you are going not to drive it I would buy a car from this dealer, he has about 20cars with very very low miles....
Here they are... some normal cars, but in some years some collectors will pay a bit more than this....
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288941080
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1289455827
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1289456503
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288683751
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288682908
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288682697
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288429424
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1290416121
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288942273
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1289077158
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1289077538
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288122614
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288235332
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288341553
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288344306
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288345291
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288428080
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288428388
http://dcmotorcars.com/details.html?VID=1-2l1288428946

 

If you buy ANY 30+ year-old car right (i.e. don't overpay, and get one that has been either correctly restored or properly maintained) you'll probably be able to drive it and enjoy it, and then sell it for roughly what you paid for it. Perhaps even a little more if you yourself can add a little "value" in terms of researching history and/or doing some restoration work yourself.

So I'd venture to say that you should buy a car that you think you're going to enjoy the most. 66-73 cars are the sweet spot for me, and to my taste, most cars built during this time represent the pinnacle of automotive design. I've owned perhaps 20 cars of this era built by Italians, Germans, and Japanese (but no English or American yet - have not gotten to it), and to me they are all special relative to other eras of automobile. Just my opinion.

Should add, if I had to be stuck with just one forever, I'd probably keep my 330 GTS, which I bought a while back.

 

Any two-seat Enzo (pre-Fiat) era Ferrari will likely appreciate in value over the next few decades. The added bonus is that many of them are eligible for classic events. I'm not sure how many fall into the sub-$400k range though.

A Muira is probably toward the top of your price range but will always be a rare car and extremely special because of its first mid-engine supercar status and incredible styling.

While under the price floor of $200k, the best E-type FHC would give years of enjoyment and you wouldn't lose money.