What do you think this 355 GTB is worth? | FerrariChat

What do you think this 355 GTB is worth?

Discussion in '348/355' started by PaulW_968, Jan 22, 2014.

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  1. PaulW_968

    PaulW_968 Karting

    Jan 12, 2014
    58
    Chicago Area
    #1 PaulW_968, Jan 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So I went and looked at a 1995 last night, it's local to me. I have to say that I think it's tired and beat. But maybe that's the kind of car I am looking for, only at a great price. But doing a quick bit of math in my head.....it quickly goes upside down.

    I will make a couple of posts so I can add some pictures.

    The car:

    1995 Ferrari F355 - Used Coupe DARIEN IL | Cass Ave Motors

    It sold at an IRS auction in 2008:

    IRS Auction - Sales Ad for Spanish Fork, UT

    It is now at Cass Ave Motors in IL. It is a "friend of a friend's" car. The dealership does not own it. I actually saw it while checking out an Audi for somebody a few weeks ago, this is what turned me onto the 355's. So I went back to inspect it last night. He had a few service records that were scanned that he emailed me, very hard to read, but from what I can gather.

    Present mileage: 34,528

    It APPEARS that it had a major service (very, very hard to read invoice) performed at 34,436 miles in the Chicago Area at Golz Motors, GOLZ MOTORS, maybe it's dated 6/13/13?

    There was a Mobil 1 oil change tag on the inside window that said it had the oil changed at Golz Motors on 08-09-10 with the mileage at 33,925 miles. So it sure hasn't been driven much.

    There are service records that date 2004 and one from 2005, it had a major, had new OEM headers installed, had valve guides replaced due low compression on one cylinder and some AC work, plus some other stuff (hard to make out the records). This was done at Steve Harris imports in SLC, Utah.

    I verified that it has the stock Ferrari Ansa headers, which is reflected on the 2004 service records.

    I think that sums up the good. Did not start the car, have no idea what the present compression or leakdown rates are, and wouldn't be surprised if they are not great due to the car never being exercised. The engine compartment is a sorry state visually, has some hose clamps that look like they went to K Mart for, it needs to be re-freshed with paint, etc., but nothing that you could do yourself with your free labor.

    I couldn't make out the name on the exhaust, but it had the name inscribed on the forward facing side, it appeared to be 4 letters, I figured if I posted a few pictures, somebody would know.

    I will put the other details in the next post so please wait a few minutes before replying, might be more than one more post.
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  2. PaulW_968

    PaulW_968 Karting

    Jan 12, 2014
    58
    Chicago Area
    #2 PaulW_968, Jan 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    And that was the good.....now the bad. Which is pretty much everything else on this car.

    First, the paint. The front bumper has been re-sprayed, the color doesn't match very well. There is a clear bra on the right front fender, right headlight, bonnet, left headlight, but not on the left front fender, so I'm going to say that has been painted also. It appeared to be the same color as the front bumper.

    There was the paint line on the rear fender where it meets the roof line, I've read that's where it cracks during a major or something? It appears the bottoms were painted, but not the roof.

    The paint is in a sad state of affair. With a lot of elbow grease you could probably get it looking pretty good....but it would be a significant effort. There are chips on the bonnet edges, small scratches everywhere, rear exhaust paint chipping, etc. It doesn't look like it's been detailed for a long, long time.

    Underside tray needs some repairs, the two front small panels probably need replacement, and there are a few areas under the car at connection points where it is ripped that needs replacement.

    Nothing that hard work wouldn't cure, but it wouldn't be pristine by any means without a total respray. I don't know if that's what I need (a totally pristine car, but I always say that and try to make it that way).
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  3. TRScotty

    TRScotty F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Oct 12, 2006
    2,505
    Tyler, Texas
    Full Name:
    Scotty
    Terrible, pay me $25k and I will begrudgingly take this off your hands...
     
  4. 355dreamer

    355dreamer F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Apr 3, 2006
    10,476
    DC Metro
    Full Name:
    L.C.
    48,777?

    That's what it's worth.

    However, why would you buy that car? You're going to end up putting 20k+ into it, and it will still be rough.

    Find a great one for more money. You'll be much happier.
     
  5. TRScotty

    TRScotty F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Oct 12, 2006
    2,505
    Tyler, Texas
    Full Name:
    Scotty
    would probably still lose money.
     
  6. PaulW_968

    PaulW_968 Karting

    Jan 12, 2014
    58
    Chicago Area
    #6 PaulW_968, Jan 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The brakes will need to be replaced in their entirety. When you look at rotors and they look thin to you, I'm going to say they are thin. A quick look at the pads, and they had about 1/16" - 1/8" to go to the backing plate. That's sad to see on a car like this.

    Not that doing brakes is hard, but the parts appear to be at least $1600 or so for rotors and pads (at least one ebay auction for OEM parts), and I'm sure there will be more to replace including parking brake parts. Hopefully the fluid has been changed.

    The tires are completely dry-rotted. Need replacement ASAP.

    There is also a inner CV boot rip as far as I can see, I didn't see the rip, but it appears that is what it is....grease all over the right hand side just outboard of the engine. It's CV joint grease, or looks like it to me.
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  7. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,224
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Are you sure it had a major? Doesn't look like it. I see what appears to be an oil leak on the valve cover of one of your pictures. Maybe a belt change? Obviously not by a quality shop either way. The car is obviously beat. Over all looks pretty poor and not well maintained. I'm not one to cheap out on these cars, but I would touch this one for anything over $35k and that would be pushing it for me. Maybe $30k. Every where you look you seen something that needs attention, and that's just the cosmetics. Paint, seats, stickies, you already noted the engine bay, looks like it needs tires, fuel distributor recall...

    [edit] I did not see all the pictures you posted. Revised, I would touch it, period.
     
  8. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,849
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    Low 40s. I saw this car on line the other day and didn't lay any further attention when I saw the inside of the engine bay. Something or many somethings are not right.
     
  9. PaulW_968

    PaulW_968 Karting

    Jan 12, 2014
    58
    Chicago Area
    #9 PaulW_968, Jan 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The interior.....what can I say except it basically needs everything. If you've never seen or felt sticky parts before, this car should be in Wikipedia as a definition.

    The leather on the dash has completely pulled back off the defroster vents, the left and right air vents are broken (plastic corner) and need replacement. The instrument cluster pod is just kind of hanging on....okay, it's just loose, but you get the idea.

    The stereo wiring is not clean, needs to be redone (okay, no big deal), the carpet needs a major cleaning, the leather inside probably needs to be re-dyed, the leather around the parking brake is trashed, but the seats are in good condition.

    Add that up, and if you are not doing the sticky parts yourself, it would be very EXPENSIVE just for the interior.

    So I think that about sums it up, you could fill it in the rest....the picture is pretty clear.

    What do you think this car is worth?
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  10. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,224
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    WOW, it just keep getting worse. Buy it for parts. When you see a car that beat on the outside you can be sure its worse on the inside (like inside the engine). $25k would be too high.

    You gotta love this from that add, "1995 Ferrari F355 Berlinetta 6SP RARE MINT COND ALL SERVICED 2 KEYS Sellers Notes
     
  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,566
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Buy it at $40K and you look to spend $20K to make it right. Then you have a $60K car that can be worth $50K for your trouble. Pass.
     
  12. PaulW_968

    PaulW_968 Karting

    Jan 12, 2014
    58
    Chicago Area
    Okay, TRScotty said he will take it if they pay him $25K.....I will only need $20K to take it....any other bids out there?

    You guys know best....but man would I love to get this car for a very, very low price and then do the work.
     
  13. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,849
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    There's no way this car has had a recent major, just doesn't make sense. I would call the shop that supposedley performed the major.
     
  14. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    16,528
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    If I wanted a 355 and was willing to spend the time and the elbow grease to do it I would price it into this car and gradually do the work myself IMHO. I'd buy it and put it in the garage, and go over it personally examining every part of the car.

    I personally like projects like this, but I'd only get it with a worst case scenario mind.

    I think it would be a great project for those who can do the work.
     
  15. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    That car is hammered! The carpets are not even clean.

    If you want a project and can get it for under $30K, perhaps....

    I'd run..
     
  16. PaulW_968

    PaulW_968 Karting

    Jan 12, 2014
    58
    Chicago Area
    I agree, the invoice is hand written and almost impossible to read, but I can see the words "coolant, seals, sealer, alternator belt, maybe tensioner?, valve cover gasket, which totaled $3,800 in parts, and on the labor side I can see the word "major" with a description and that was $4,300 plus another $1,000 in labor.

    It looks like it was paid by check in full on 8/15/13 via check. It was $8,900. If it was an engine out service, it was lame. It looks like it needs to come out again.
     
  17. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,895
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    I'd buy it for $25-$30k. That about it. You'd spend $10k and a lot of your labor just for it to be a decent driver imo. I'd be happy with a decent driver at $40k, but not much more.

    Regarding the paint, less than a grand at a good detailer and it will be perfectly fine for a nice driver. Interior needs $2-3k. Engine needs a major ($2000 doing it yourself given there's a cv boot and probably a few other things you'd find) unless you can verify that it has been done - call the shop. I wouldn't even bother with the undertrays, they all get scraped up if you drive it at all, as long as none are hanging down. Brakes are $1500, but I wouldn't even bother with the stock stuff, I'd put a stop tech kit on it for a little more money. So, doing all that and you're at $10-$15k on top of purchase and you'd have a nice driver that you could take to the track and have fun. If you wanted a mint/show car, don't but this one.
     
  18. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    I'd say double. Seat leather, carpets, dash leather, sticky's....It need quite a bit.
     
  19. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,849
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!

    I find it odd that so much was left dirty and untouched looking. What shop would perform a major and leave it in such a state?
     
  20. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,895
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Seats don't need recover, just recondition which isn't too expensive. Dash leather, stickies - a lot of which can be done on the cheap if you don't mind getting your hands dirty - and a/c overlay, shouldn't be much over $2k.

    Keep in mind, everything I quote assumed a lot of DIY. If you take it to a shop figure double, or close to it, of everything I said.
     
  21. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    Yes, I realized that. I guess I view the DIY in 2 ways...

    1) You can do everything your self including wraping the dash and the stickey's...

    or

    2) You can do all the disassembly / assembly but send parts to Robbie for stickey's and Bradan for dash leather...
     
  22. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,895
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    If you live in any decent sized metro area, there should be a specialist that can recover the dash, no need to send it out. I know of a couple in my area that have done (very good) Ferrari work, it shouldn't be over $1k to have the dash recovered. Stickies you can do yourself for less than a hundred bucks minus the a/c overlay, that's a few hundred. Reconditioning the seats is fairly cheap even if farmed out. That was my logic in the $2k number, but yeah if you send everything out it will be more.

    Either way, that's not a big deal on this car, there are other more pressing (and expensive) issues at first blush.

    Here's the thing with this car. If the dealer spent about a grand and the same in labor to just address cosmetics (steam clean the engine and carpets, repaint the drip rails, refinish the worst sticky parts, full detail), they'd sell it for $10k more as it wouldn't have the appearance of a neglected car that needed a lot of work. It wouldn't be a better buy, but the appearance of it would give people more confidence. I'd rather buy it in this condition as you know you're getting a turd rather than a shiny turd.
     
  23. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    LOL, Thanks funny. And I agree. For the right price, the car could be a fun project.
     
  24. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 26, 2012
    3,821
    Tinton Falls, NJ
    Full Name:
    Bob Ferraris
    Let's do it this way and be conservative on the buy side.

    34k miles. Rosso corsa 95 gtb/stick. Recent major. All known issues addressed. Stickies, excellent paint, everything working mechanically. Just about a 9/10 34k car.

    How much would you pay for the above? Not trying to start a flame topic here but I think 60k

    You haven't mentioned prior ownership , etc. but I wouldn't think this car looks so swift lineage wise. So you can't change that. That's worth 5- 10k in warm fuzziness

    Everything else is fixable.

    I see 10-15k here in cosmetic stuff, accepting that a bonafide major has been done, which I agree appears doubtful. (Valve covers not painted?).

    I think if everything was fixed on this car the best it could be is a 50k car with a lot of effort and time.

    If I wanted a project I would be thinking 25k.
     
  25. F355steve

    F355steve Formula 3

    Apr 9, 2008
    2,089
    Honolulu - Seattle - Okinawa
    Full Name:
    Steve
    If I was looking for a second F355 to daily drive the crap out of I would want something like this for around $30k. $30k would be the top pending good compression and leakdown numbers. From there I would do all the work myself, modify the crap out of it, and not worry about the exterior paint because I was DD'ing it. That is the only way I would touch this one.

    If you are looking for one to make "nice" don't go near this one.
     

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