What does it cost to self-maintain a 308?

-You can do a search as some others have documented expenses over long ownership periods

-You can wait for others to chime in

-To start off, I never worked on or owned one, but from reading here...
If doing own work:
Expect minimum $1,200 US every 3-5 years for belt change parts/gasket set/etc.
Fluid changes
Normal expendables (tires/brake pads/battery change etc. like any car)
The rest is up to luck as if a part breaks it may be expensive (turn directional stalk $700?)

If paying for Independent (non dealer) engine rebuild $10,000-15,000
Trans rebuild $7,000

 

One place to start is checking the prices of the parts involved. Ricambi, a sponsor here (link above), offers major service kits. Also you can check prices for clutches, brake rotors, Koni shocks, etc.

Where these cars get expensive is when you need Ferrari-specific parts -- windscreens, targa latches, window trim, gauges, etc. The ignition wire set on a 308/328, for example, is over $500.

The other thing to keep in the back of your mind is that if you ever re-sell the car it will be "owner-maintained", and to many prospective buyers will be worth less than one serviced by a Ferrari dealer or reputable independent tech. While you may be skilled and meticulous, there are also a lot of idiots who try to own a Ferrari on the cheap, and to some extent your car would be a "DIY" item. The first thing people want to see when your car goes up for sale is the service history, and yours would lack that. I say this because it is easy to say that you're saving $3000 or some other figure by not paying a professional, but it's very possible that 5 years down the road your car will be worth $3000 less on the market because it lacks paperwork from Ferrari of Wherever.

OTOH, you may be in it for the hobby and not be overly concerned about resale. Just wanted to mention this so you're not surprised down the road.

 

There are many variables.

How lucky you get with the car you choose, how stricktly you want to stick to OEM parts, how resourcefull you can be to find non-new parts...etc

Most indi shops charge $2500-$3500 for a straight belt change...belts & bearings run $250 in parts (ish), so....

Botom line is that baring a complete engine or trans rebuild you'll spend a couple grand yearly on average. The only thing I need to do last year was replace my H2O pump. This spring I'm doing blets and some hose replacement, small stuff but if nothing major goes... I wont spend more than a grand.

 

That would then be just the cost of the parts. So, fluids, copper gaskets, oil filter. Not much really. The thing is 1) things break and 2) you 'new' car won't be 'perfect', so you may need to account for the cost of additional restoration parts which is really going to be variable from car to car.

You can download the owner's manuals and see the factory services and intervals, but it wont tell how many things will break or fall off while driving

As an example, first 2 years after restoration of 308: Alternator diodes shorted, fuel pump quit, one original airbox nut fell off.
First 5 years with testarossa: No wheels fell off (good!) and the window switch stopped working, the trunk latch broke and the bonnet struts gave out.

I'm sure others will chime in that their engines exploded and their cars burned to the ground (and they wouldn't be joking ), but those are rare occurrences.

 

Serious Question Jon, as I and others respect your opinion greatly around here: Could you not get around this little issue by detailing the work that was done just as meticulously as the work that was done?

I.E: taking date stamped pictures of each oil change, belt change, etc. and presenting the next owner (if there is a next owner) with a photo album of the work done and receipts from all the parts purchased to backup the date stamped photos?

I'm no expert on Ferrari buyers, but if an owner could prove he was competent and could prove he did the work, then why would a buyer not be satisfied with that?

 

Unfortunately it's a perception issue. There's nothing more mouthwatering than a classic Ferrari for sale where the (wealthy) owner has taken a blank check approach to servicing the car and has a pile of receipts with prancing horses at the top. "Ferrari 308 GTS QV with $10,000 recent service from Ferrari of Washington" is just going to pull more wallets than "Ferrari 308 GTS QV, owner serviced, documented with photos".

I can answer for myself: I would appreciate a photo documentation of DIY servicing done by a conscientious owner, but unless that owner was a certified Ferrari tech I'd not offer as much money for the car. Part of it is that when a dealer or independent does a service on the car, you do have some recourse if disaster strikes the next month. With an owner-serviced car, you don't. The other part is that I know that Bobileff, Rifledriver, FerrariOldMan, Norwoods, Bill Pollard and others have done hundreds of services on these cars, and know what else to be looking for beyond replacing the infamous timing belt.

Not to hijack the thread -- I think it's fantastic that the OP has the confidence and skills to do this (I know I don't), and I don't want to discourage him. There's a lot of satisfaction and pleasure in looking after an old Ferrari, and he may very well save a few bucks.

 

That is true, but 308/328 buyers are not generally (currently anyway) the type of buyer who will get in to the car and have no expense spared on a regular basis like that of your average 430 buyer. From a personal standpoint, I feel more comfortable with a meticulous owner maintained car because I believe they have a much better feel of what their car is doing and what it needs/might need. There are too many cars of this vintage out there that are 'dealer/good independant maintained' that are somewhat of a trainwreck because the dealer did do something, but the little niggling things were never done, or the dealer just plain did the belt job wrong (young mechanic not knowing this vintage of car). The current owner might have thrown the $5-10k in for the major, but there might be a bit of play in the steering rack or the suspension bushings are still original or the owner decided $10k was enough to throw into the car at that point and the rest will have to come later etc.

I know a well-known '50s-'60s vintage Ferrari/Maserati collector with a very impressive collection who does all his own maintenance. I would never hesitate to say his vehicles are always in tip-top shape. This speaks volumes for the owner maintenance depends greatly on the owner. If it is an owner who is barely a mechanic a could barely get the car in the first place then yeah you might want to stay away, but if the owner has a 4-post lift, has worked on many other cars, has other cars such as this in their collection, and has accurate records of what was done I would have no issues recommending that car to someone even before a dealer maintained car.

To answer the question posed by the thread starter: Personally, I have not seen any major expense since I did the major on the car a couple years ago. The parts for the major were about $1200. I rebuilt the radiator since then due to a small leak and I replaced the distributor caps/rotors/wires which has another $1k+ (I keep the car original looking well many others have gone to fully progammable ignition which eliminates all that). I am planning on rebuilding the front suspension and taking the heads off the car for the next major. Plan on about $1k+ each year to keep things somewhat fresh and going. It's the parts that are Ferrari specific that are indeed the killer (brake rotors, engine bearings, gaskets, suspension parts).

 

2 308's, equal condition. One is "dealer maintained" the other is maintained by an enthusiast who photodocuments everything, has lists of where the parts came from, etc... If price is the same its not going to matter to me as much on the service history as long as I can document it. The choice will come down to other subjective things... Then again, I'm an atypical owner I suppose.

If you are as you say and have all the equiptment and experience/confidence to tackle any project, then you are looking at parts and your time. I do the majority of work myself. The 308 is very easy to work on and unless you HAVE to have strictly OEM parts, then parts CAN be found at somewhat reasonable prices if you look hard. (not always, but most of the time.)

I'm expecting this summer:

2 oil changes= $51.50/ea. (Oil=$40 Filter=10 Washer=$1.50)

1 gear oil change= $53 (Oil=$50 Washers=$3) (will have to do to investigate my 5th gear issue which I think is a mal-aligned fork)


That is all I'm *expecting* but I do have some in reserve just in case.

Now last year, I spent (by choice) $3300 on a suspension rebuild, did 2 oil changes and 1 gear oil change. And I did a valve adjustment which ran me a few hundred in parts, etc...

All in all its been pricier than our old Honda Odyssey to maintan, but 100X the fun, so its worth it!!!!!!!

JIM

 

Thanks for the great answer guys,

I apologize to the OP for the hijack.

-David

 

If you can wrench those cars, it not really a jump to Ferrari especially with the great support F-chat offers.

 

+1

 

I've spent 10K in 11 years with Ferrari shop doing a major, 2 belt changes, clutch, steering rack, radiator re-rod, a/c work, and yearly oil changes, etc etc. Guess I could have saved by doing much myself but $1k per year seems reasonable to me.

It let's me brag about my $350 oil changes.

Oh that includes 16" wheels, new tires and gobs of minor replacements like hoses.

 

I agree with Bullfighter that an owner-maintained car will probably pull less money at resale than a name-brand maintained car everything else appearing equal. With a known service shop there is a perceived or expected level of competence, but with a home mechanic you just assume it was done on the front lawn and hope for the best. And I say this as a DIY'er.

I also know I bought a car with a pile of recipts from a well-known San Jose area dealer/service shop (now out of business). I have gone back thorugh some of the work that they did and it is frankly embarassing. Stripped threads, electrical tape hiding wiring disasters, nearly finished work, strange attempts at sealing surfaces. I can say with certainty my work is better than theirs was.

But you don't know me. Crall, Helms and Ferrari of Whereverville all have a reputation that means something, and when you are buying a car you really have precious little to go on, you need all the confidence you can get to pull the trigger for a particular car.

[/rant]

The 308 will cost more than a Chevy to buy parts for, guaranteed. If you need a tranny serviced, it could be painfully expensive. If you have a valve break or your carb balancer spit some little metal bit into your cylinder you could be in it financially for more than you bargained for. Headgaskets are something like $400 each, windshields are $1500+ for example. It seems like parts in general are about 9X the Napa/Kragen/Parts Plus price for the captive parts.

I'm probably spending less than $1000 a year on parts. But I also buy very few parts that come in a yellow box with a horsey on it. Remember that you are buying a 30+ year old car. Even if it has been meticulouly maintained and has very little miles on it you will be buying parts for it. Some parts wear with miles, some wear with time. After 30 years you have both. Cruise through the Ricambi parts pages and pick stuff out and see what stuff costs. Pick a few threads as examples and look at someone's problem, go see what those replated parts costs are. Add up a brake job, or an ignition tune up, or a belt service, a water pump and radiator and hoses.

 

I don't know what others experience has been but my experience has been that there are a lot of horrible amateur mechanics who make a mess of maintenance. I don't know how many times I've started on a major maintenance procedure and then found obvious signs of some hack who didn't have a clue - things like trying to fix a leaky seal by smearing RTV sealant everywhere, prying a head off a block by jamming a screw driver between the faces, cross threaded and stripped bolts, botched wiring (turn on the stereo and the brake lights short out), etc. There certainly are lots of excellent home mechanics with the tools and experience to do a wonderful job, evern better than the ferrari dealer, but there are lots who just plain wreck things and do more harm than good.

So, net, even if there is evidence/pics of maintenance procedures, don't assume that necessarily solves the maintenance question....

 

Personally, I've had bad experience with Ferraris that were owner maintained. No doubt there are some backyard mechanics that are pretty competent, but most just think they are. In any event, even the best cannot compete with a pro who has serviced hundreds of these and knows all the little ins and outs and has seen about everything possible. You can take pics, but how many of us can tell from pics the quality of the work? Are seals installed correctly? Are the timing belts indexed properly? Is everything torqued to proper specs? You gey my drift. No matter how you slice it, an owner maintained Ferrari will appeal to a much smaller pool of potential buyers and they will more likely be bottom feeders as well, so there is a price to be paid at resale. The question is whether or not the penalty is as much or more than the savings? I would think a long term owner who sells when a car is due for a big service anyway would probably come out ahead and certainly there is the satisfaction of working on your own car. Having said this, I see no reason why an owner can't do some stuff. I change the oil myself and do some minor repairs myself, although there has not been much to do on my 328.

Dave

 

If you want a Ferrari, get a Ferrari. Sounds like you could handle a Major, with the great guidance available here. Don't worry about the cost. You only go around once (at most). If it becomes too much of a burden, sell it. "It is better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all".

I do my own work also. My Mondial 308QV ate 16 valves. I did everything except the head work (both heads). Bottom line for parts, $4200. This was the equivalent of a Major, plus some bearings, gaskets, valves, stem seals and some spacers. So, if you do the work yourself, even a major problem like mine is doable. I will agree though, that if you need Ferrari parts (gears, etc.)........well, just hope you don't need Ferrari parts.

 

I do my own service and so far after 10 years of ownership I have $8600 into it. I keep a current spreadsheet of all of my service wich also idetifies parts cost and labor. Now it does not avg $860 per year but it will give you an idea of costs. Now mind you included in this are the repairs of both doors and 4 belt changes. I had also rebuilt the alt and replaced the AC compressor twice with the last conversion being the Sanden unit. So oil changes once a year and other fluids every other year are no different than other cars. Remember a belt change runs around $250 and that is without cam seals or cam cover gaskets. Also things like water pump rebuild at $250 and dizzy conversion at $550 drives the price up. So if you can afford a few extra $'s per year and you are a fair mechanic then these are nice toys to own. By the way I talked to my brother-in-law who has a 1967 427 Corvette roadster and he runs about $450 a year over the course of 15 year since he has owned it. Good luck and have fun.

 

FWIW...heres my 2 cents.

Buy the best 308 you can find up front. If your going for the gtsi especially. Better to spend 10K upfront to get as clean as a car as possible with all documentation. Though im not a fan of ebay, use that to start, but really go a physically see 5 different 308s yourself, not through the eyes of others (everyone has differnet standards of what a good car is). Once you find that car, odds are you found and bought a well sorted car without issues upfront. The maintance then becomes routine, as opposed to chasing problems all weekend and wasting your time in the garage and on fchat. Not sure about you, but i would prefer to be driving....I would say you would be very hard pressed to spend on average more than 2k a year and this includes doing your belts and service every 6-7 yrs included. I doubt if you average that number as a DIY, you would come in at under 2k per year.

 

i am a bit short on time to read the whole thread, as i am taking my Qv out soon to see a sick friend.

i do want to comment on the perceived difference in price when you look at a dealer maintained car versus a owner maintained car.

many here know me, and know i play with these cars, and do not keep anything too long. i sold one of my old 308 GTB's , a black carb car , vin *20433* to a very nice man that works for the FAA. my car had new fuel lines, gaskets, belt srvice, and so on. after owning the car for about 6 months, he took it to a very well respected shop in the Atlanta area for some basic carb work. on his way home , the car caught on fire. Hagerty paid some money, the shop that worked on the car paid some money, and then Ted Rutland bought what was left of the car to repair or chop it up for parts.

now that was the nicest carb car i had owned, and i have been around, owned and driven a bunch of carbed 308's.


so i will go on record here and say i DO NOT support the idea that any dealer may have a clue what the hell they are doing.

an independant, small shop may be a better place to goto, as i would trust someone like Karl Troy, Tim Stanford or Andy Greene before dropping my ancient cars off a "a dealer". but i still prefer to do most of the work myself.


another case in point. i had my 1983 Lambo Jalpa towed to the Lambo dealership in the State where the car was located for a basic PPI last summer.

they told me how excited they were, as they had never seen a Jalpa up close. that should have beeen a warning to me.

they charged me for a PPI, said they drove the car, and missed the fact that the reverse gear was broken. the car also needed a valve job and new head gaskets. i dont "blame" them at all, i was buying the car cheap, with issues. but here you have the example of "taking it to a dealer" will protect you, when they have never seen a Urraco or Jalpa before.


i think its unwise to label a car as worth less, just because someone worked on it themselves. seems to me if it ain't right, she will blow up pretty quickly and let you know!

 

I went from Corvettes straigh to ferrari.

Some things are different but thats why you ask.

I had the motor pulled out the first month I owned the car!
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Well yeah but I'll bet it evens out when you factor in tires and gas! ;-)

Best,
Tom

P.S ..and I'd love to have an L88 '67!