What else causes understeer? | FerrariChat

What else causes understeer?

Discussion in '348/355' started by vvassallo, Mar 25, 2007.

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  1. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,329
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    Vince V
    Had the car out today and it understeered badly - again, this is not a new problem. Actually, the car understeers initially and then appears to take a bite causing you to correct back against it. I have boiled it down to (1) older, shot front tires - SO1's with 50% tread and no idea of age - with new rears or (2) front end alignment camber off (should be something like -0.5° on the fronts I think.

    So what else?

    Tie rod ends? Checked 'em and they're good.

    I need to take this car up the hill to billybob for some track tuning. :D
     
  2. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
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    I have read that to get the best out of the 348, you need to change all four tires simultaneously. Maybe that is your issue as you have different tread levels front and rear.
     
  3. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    There are some old TR threads where the 512 crowd had to add some weight in the front trunk as a temporary cludge to reduce understeer.
     
  4. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    Could be. Could also be a toe-in/toe-out or caster setting that's out of whack.
     
  5. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

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    +1 my vote = toe in ;)
     
  6. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
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    Vince V
    Thanks, as for the wfront end weight, I had about 70 lbs. up there and thought that was causing it, so I removed it. It didn't affect it except to reduce the oscillation at high speed. When the car was moving at about 100-120, it would feel skittish like it was ready to piroette if it got hit with a cross wind. My Spider did not have this issue at all, but then, I replaced all four tires with Yoko AVS right away. I don't really like SO1's anyway.

    BTW, I'm not cheap, I only got rears so I could drive the car until I got a proper set of 355 wheels and tires - am getting close, I hope. So it all may be a non-issue. Yes, I'll definitely attend to the alignment. :)
     
  7. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,215
    socal

    Vince...come on by...I'll be in the garage all day with my 348 engine out and trying to build a seatbase to run a race seat in my Z06 since the Ferrai is off line and I want to do the tribute to lemans at WSIR. Email me [email protected] for directions to my house.
     
  8. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,215
    socal
    Many of these cars have been nose raised because they scrape everywhere. This can cause understeer and high speed float/wander. Transient understeer usually means loose/worn parts/mushy suspension/bad shock for example. I bet I could align it by eye and make it better
     
  9. Dr.T348

    Dr.T348 Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,599
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    Richard T.
    Exactly. Understeer you have not enough front grip or too much rear grip. Before you go change the alignment and create oversteer (be careful more of a handful on the road) you may want to get new front tires. That will increase grip and lessen understeer. Even if the tread is not terribly worn the rubber will get harder with age. Search past threads. There was a discussion on changing only rear tires on the 348 and how it made the car unstable. Although it would seem like you save money because the rears wear faster, the consensus is that it upset the balance of the car by only changing rear tires.

    You can get into increasing toe in and camber on the front but you will also increase tire wear. Softer front sway bars with decrease under steer. Again be careful. Anything that increase grip on the front (reduces understeer) will increase oversteer which is much more dangerous on the street.
     
  10. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
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    Will do Doc. My Spider was set up perfectly using the factory specs except for the slightly lower profile front tires (had 215x45x17). I do not want to do this with the SS since the lip spoiler is already a challenge to speed bumps.

    For now I want to get a baseline before I go ahead and tuning it for track use. When I can rocket around the curves on the "Hill" (fbb knows what I mean), then I can expand.
     
  11. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    When's the party start?
     
  12. bcwawright

    bcwawright F1 Veteran

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    Dead on......if you are running stock wheels..NO spacers...and stock tire sizes, set the car alignment and ride height to factory setting....this should establish a fixed starting point. If you are running new rears and old fronts there could be a difference with the way the rear and fronts are heating up under lateral load(i.e. cornering....new rears having full tread[hotter] and used fronts[cooler]...like having a shaved tire) which will can cause a sudden stick on the fronts as temps rise, usually about halfway into the turn. Worn a-arm,shock absorber, and sway bar bushings could possibly cause this and is pretty easy to check when car is on jack stands.
     
  13. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    Greg Calo
    Not yet having decent carpets?
     
  14. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

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  15. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

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    Maybe if you can co-ordinate with a local brother, you could try out his tires (assuming all four are of a similar age) on your car. Go for a drive and see if you face the same understeer issue. If the tires dont make a difference then alignment would be the area to focus on. Otherwise a matched set of tires are your answer
     
  16. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

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    Now that is an outstanding suggestion. Plugz, FBB, you guys reading this?! :p
     
  17. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

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    Try Chris - I am sure he is busy with his Porker. He wont notice 4 tires missing in his 348 :p
     
  18. bcwawright

    bcwawright F1 Veteran

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    Bruce
    Now that's pretty funny....
     
  19. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

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    LOL :p Chris must be out with the beast as we speak :eek: :p ;) .
     
  20. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    I believe he may be or was just a bit "wound up" from the W/E.

    He has not yet replied to me today!

    I would take his tires.
     
  21. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    Vince...did you notice the tire changer in my garage, the 20 extra tires, the 4 extra OEM wheels on the trailer and the 4 challenge wheels with slicks next to the welder? Which ones do you want to try?
     
  22. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    It's good to have good friends!
     
  23. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    I think the proper term is "Water Buffalo"
     
  24. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

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    Vince while you are at FBB's place, pile on some liquor and lotsa food to FBB and make him sell his challenge wheels to me for $50.
     
  25. bcwawright

    bcwawright F1 Veteran

    Jul 8, 2006
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    +1.....wish I lived next to FBB
     

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