What have I done to my 328?

For the few mid-Atlantic folks who might have wondered why there was one fewer 328 at Brown's Island than expected on Sunday, the following is the reason. Help from anyone and everyone would be greatly appreciated.


I've been out of town for most of the summer, hence my '86 328 (~40k miles) has largely been sitting. When I got back a few weeks ago, I found the battery dead. I bought a battery tender, which sucessfully charged the battery and I drove the car several times about ten days ago. Then the car sat for about a week.
On Friday, I attached and activated the tender. Saturday night my buddy and I detailed the car in the garage but didn't check the battery. Early Sunday morning the lights would pop up and every thing in the car would turn on when the ignition key was in the run position, but the car still would not start. It made a brief grunting noise that I allowed myself to believe was the starter trying and just failing to turn the engine. I assumed the battery was knackered and I went to get a new one. After a frantic search on a Sunday morning, I bought one from Merchant's who actually had a spec battery size listed for my car in their book. The battery they sold me was different from the one in the car, but I blithely and foolishly assumed that it would be OK.
We installed the new battery and I noticed that the plate over the battery well seemed perilously close to shorting the battery, but there is a rubber cap over the positive terminal, and I do not think this happened. When I connected the negative terminal of the new battery to the car (key out, set to "off") I heard what sounded like the locks engaging. I got in the car, turned the key to the middle position where upon everything worked as it had with the old battery. When the brake warning light went out I twisted the key and was rewarded with a modest sizzling pop and dead electricals. I tested every Buss (sp??) fuse in the box and all were working.
Additional possibly relevant tidbits: The car has an aftermarket stereo and amp that is wired to to the battery with its own little fuse. Also, the power window circuit on the driver's side fried its fuse in July, but it functioned normally after I replace the relevant fuse in the main fusebox.
Sorry about the long post, but I'm really bummed about the prospect of sending the car away for several weeks during the glorious late summer and fall here in Central VA.

 

Is the new battery a Group 34R with the reverse terminals? In other words, are the terminals in the same orientation on the new battery as the old?

 

The terminals are in the correct (reverse position) - of that I made certain. The battery was not exactly a size 34, but one of the adjacent sizes (I'd have to check the exact code), but it was spec battery in the Merchant's book (I know, I know - I never should have trusted their book, but my computer was recalcitrantly refusing to load F-chat and I WANTED to go to that show.) Now I'm paying for my eagerness.

 

Here are a few thoughts.

Do you have a battery cutoff switch that is faulty?

Battery cable ends loose or corroded?

Negative cable not firmly grounded at the frame?

Does the car have an aftermarket alarm/immobilizer that is faulty (that sound you heard when you connected the battery)?

Did you connect the battery backwards? If you did and tried to start it there could be some damaged stuff.

 

Uh, I didn't think I had a cutoff switch. Is this a stock item?

I guess this is a possibility, but the juice was flowing nicely when I tried the lights before I attempted to turn the motor.

The car's built in ground connection looked OK. The tender was clipped to the ground nut that is to the right of and below the battery when viewed from the driver's seat.

I never was aware of an alarm or an immobilizer, but could there be an immobilizer only system installed? Could it be wired off the same set of extra cables as the stereo amp? There is also an ancient radar detector, but the sound I heard was definitely some kind of decently large solenoid being actuated.

Heaven help me, but I'm really quite certain we did not do this. We tripled checked the polarity before we hooked it up. I had the sense that something was wrong even with the old battery, but I wund't thank'n prop'ly.

 

Lights take a LOT less juice to shine brightly than the starter motor takes to turn the motor over. The lights working are merely an indication that the battery has some juice in it, the starter requires much more amperage.

I would first check the connections and especially the ground connections, put your charger on the new battery overnight while you are checking all the connections, just because its new does not mean its fully charged (usually does but not always). Sounds like you have already done these steps and the next step is digging deeper but I thought I should mention that just because the lights are on does not mean the battery is good enough to turn that motor over.

The fact that you had a sense something might be wrong prior to swapping would make look at the quality of the ground connections first.

 

Definitely will do.
Just to be clear, nuttin seems to be working now. I definitely have some kind of short/blown fuse, but I'm not certain where it is.

 

It could be that one of those connections that appears solid is really rusty where you can't see.

The rust is an insulator, it needs to go.

I recommend that you unbolt the cable(s) where they attach and shine up the surfaces and reconnect.

I also recommend that you disconnect (at least temporarily) the wiring to the stereo.

This and a fully charged battery might just do it.

 

There is also a quick disconnect for the positive battery cable (like the one up front to disconnect the battery ground cable). I say "quick disconnect" but there would be nothing quick about getting to it and disconnecting it. It is located inside a little plastic cable tray underneath the car at the rear end not too far from the starter. I doubt this is your problem but it's worth checking. I looked at mine the other day and the metal contact areas inside looked like new and the mechanical tension that holds the contacts against each other was strong.

 

OK,
I've finally got some time to work on the car. Here's another ignorant question: instead of just cleaning and tightening connections, does it make sense to test them electronically, and, if so, what should I use? Ammeter? Galvanometer?

 

Use voltage drop testing. Clip one lead of a voltmeter to one side of a connection, the other lead to the other side of the connection. For instance, clip one lead to the battery negative (the post, not the clamp), the other lead to a solid metal unpainted part of the engine. Try the starter, there should be very little reading on the meter, maybe 1/2 volt or so. Try this on both sides of any suspect connection. The idea is that a good connection should have nearly the same voltage on either side, the meter is reading the difference of voltage between the 2 points. Most connections can have 1 or 2 tenths of a volt drop. By the way, a battery tender should be used the maintain an already fully charged battery, not charge a dead one. Good luck, Mike

 

So now I'm certain the (second) new battery in the car is charged and the battery's ground cable connection is good. I had the same thing occur. When I attached the negative terminal to the battery, there was a spark and I heard what I am certain was the door locks actuating.
Nothing works and none of the Buss fuses has melted. Tonight I'll get a voltmeter and as many connections as I can, but I'm wondering if one (or more) of those big, metal Bosch relays is fried. I'm going to reveal further ignorance: How do those things come out? Do you just pull them out like a fuse? Are they readily available or will I have to order them?
Edit: If I do need to pull those relays, how do I get to the ones that are tucked up under the dashboard? Will the fuse panel drop partially or fully out without any other panels being removed?

 

All the relay information you need is available in this thread:

Bosch Relays
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112475


They pull out with some good tuggin'. You can probably use a tool to help.

There's nothing wrong with the idea of replacing all of your relays, though this is not done by most folks. I will probably do it sooner or later.


--Mike

 

I am no electrical expert, but when I know I will not be driving my car for more than a week, I pull the battery disconnect that is next to the battery under the drivers left headlight... when I connect it back up it makes the noise like the door locks are opening... I wonder if you have a faulty ground or short there? that noise I know really well... as soon as the car gets power, it makes that noise.. thats how i know I have any juice... Hope it all works out. to me I think it will end up being something small.... hope so! best of luck!

 

Mike, thank you for referencing the other thread. At this point I'm assuming (hoping) that this must be my problem.

Tom - I did my best to clean up the battery's ground connection, but your advice and my recent experiences had led me to conclude that I'm not being diligent enough about disconnecting the battery. Live and learn.

 

If you have volt meter first measure across the battery terminals and see if you have 12volts. Basically a good starting point to make sure you have a battery and that the volt meter is operational. As far as getting to some of the relays there are two screws that hold up the fuse panel. Take them out and you will be able to drop the fuse panel enough to get to the relays.

If you feel comfortable with the volt meter find a good ground near the fuse panel and there is a connector listed in the wiring diagram as "W". There are two red wires, I think 5th and 6th conductor from the top just below the biege wire that goes to the fuel pump. See if you have 12volts on the two red wires. Put the black lead from the meter to ground and probe the connector with the other lead. They apear in the wiring diagram to come from the battery to the fuse panel. The power comes in to the fuse panel through connector "A" which should be located in the bottom right side of the fuse panel, I don't have a picture of that side of the fuse panel but I imagine it should be a decent sized wire coming in to the fuse panel. You should also see the same voltage pulling the 4th fuse from the left side and touching the lower contact. I am including a pic of "W" but ignore the text on the picture it was for something else.

These points all get power from the battery and are hot all the time regardless of relays or fuses or ignition so if you don't have volts start tracing back to the battery and ground.
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Kevin,
Thanks for the photo. I thought I'd be OK if I took out the two screws at the bottom, but I'm wary of doing anything to the car without a pat on the back first. I didn't get around to the voltmeter today (Friday), so I'll follow your advice tomorrow. I'd think it was the battery leads except for the fact that the door locks jump and I get a spark when I attach the negative cable to the battery. Is it possible for one of the relays to blow and cut off nearly everything activated by the ignition? I go the impression from the owner's manual that this was indeed possible.

 

There is no need to disconnect the battery under normal circumstances. The only current draw with the car just sitting should be a tiny amount for the clock and a little bit for your radio, depending on the model (maybe alarm system if installed and activated). It sounds like you have an abnormally high current draw.

If you have something drawing more than a really small amount of current you need to address that problem. Simply disconnecting the battery is avoiding the problem. Of course it's a good idea to disconnect it in the interim while you try to figure out what is going on and nothing wrong with disconnecting it if the car will not be driven for a month or more.

It's really not necessary to disconnect the battery for long-term parking either, if your battery is hooked-up to a "battery tender" (which it should be).

By the way, after removing the battery connections and cleaning them along with the battery terminals, coat the terminals and connectors with vaseline and THEN reconnect everything. This will help avoid corrosion on the terminals in the future. This applies to ANY car.

 

How about that "radio" wiring?

If you can't get it to crank you have a basic problem.

I still suspect an aftermarket security system could be the problem (I've seen it before on a 328).

You need someone who knows what is original and what is not to look at it.

 

After checking some of this stuff out let us know what is working and what is not including the clock. That will tell us something. Acording to the wiring diagram there should be two wires coming from the positive side of the bat. The smaller one goes to the fuse panel as I described and a large one that goes directly to the starter motor. I don't know how easy it is to get to the starter motor but you should also check for volts on the large cable at the starter motor.

On a truck I had a while back there was a problem inside the lead end of the cable. The battery was good, the connection to the battery was good but the conection inside the moulded conector on the end of the battery cable was bad. Only the smaller of the two wires had 12 volts on it. Also look under the panel behind the passenger foot rest. There are some connectors under there that come loose/corrode etc.

 

OK, here's the update:
I carefully inspected and cleaned every contact I could find. I removed contacts from the wires for the radio or whatever it is as I determined they might be worsening the corrosion at the terminals. After attending to the connections, I tested the ground connections with my new voltmeter and found no noticeable voltage drop. I then proceeded to spend an hour (yes, the entire Johnny Cash American Legend volume III CD) trying and failing to screw in the bolt that locks down the spare. It's been a challenge before, but this is the first time it's utterly defeated me. After all that, I didn't have the energy to mess with the ramps that are required to get my car from my alley to the street. I didn't want to run the car in the garage, and frankly I wussed out a bit. Thus, I didn't try to start the car, but all of the ignition activated electrical functions are working again. If it is a relay, it just the one for the starter. Tomorrow, I shall lay my soul bare before the Ferrari gods with the final twist of that little key.

 

I'm rootin' for ya!!

 

My Ferrari works again! It turned over this morning and caught with only one or two extra revolutions of the starter (typical when it's been sitting). After I'd been on the road for a few minutes, the car almost seemed to sigh, stretch, and shake off the stiffness of long bed rest.
It had to have been the ground connection after all. I can't thank y'all enough; I know this seems like baby stuff, but I was crushed that I missed Brown's Island. I'm feelin' mighty manly after fixin' my own Ferrari.