What if Gore was the President?

GWB isn't the only president who had numerous failures in his life before becoming President.

Consider this record of an earlier President:

He failed as a business man - as a storekeeper.

He failed as a farmer - he despised this work.


He failed in his first attempt to obtain political office.


When elected to the legislature he failed when he sought the office of speaker.


He failed in his first attempt to go to Congress.


He failed when he sought the appointment to the United States Land Office.


He failed when he ran for the United States Senate.


He failed when friends sought for him the nomination for the Vice-Presidency.





Who was this failure?




Abraham Lincoln.


Like they say in the investments business, past performance is no guarantee of future returns.

John

 

To put it crudely. It is stupid to call G.W.B. stupid. The supposedly "sophisticated" and "learned" Europeans have nothing more intelligent to say about Bush then he is a cowboy and stupid. Every country is arrogant and self serving. US is actually not the worst offender. Yet US bashing is very intellectually simple and without risk, thus very tempting. I find that Europeans are just as ignorant about the world as the Americans. An average European knows nothing about the US and are intensly jealous of it's sucess.

 

Many european countries are doing fine, why should they be jaloux? You are mistaken Middle-eastern countries with european countries.

 

I am really not sure if and why anyone found that offensive.
Anyone can say "I don't give a xxxx about China, France, Austrilia, India, Japan...(plug any country you want in there)." I really wouldn't think twice about that let alone be upset.

But we are not enemy here, so if it offended anyone, I apologize. I just don't get why everytime politcs or middle east issue is raised, Israel became a taboo word.

 

No offence guy. But i've been to Denmark. I'd rather go back to Russia. If I was a Dane (again no offence, just my opinion) I'd leave for US in a hurry. Especially if I planned not to spend the rest of my life on unemployment benefits.

 

Hey, fair enough. That's your opinion, but on what exactly are you basing that on? Just want to know. Our unemployment rate is close to zero.

 

Actually Bruce, Woodear's comment was not as offensive as Absent's. The political threads don't have to degenerate, even if people have extremely different views. Thus, Gabriel and Art are, in my estimation, able to spar : without pissing all over each other. As for our Danish friend, why do you believe Americans have a monopoly on arrogance? After all, you expect us to listen to you, and you don't even have a vote here.

 

If President Bush was so dishonest, don't you think he would have *found* WMD in Iraq by now?

 

I don't care whether Jonas has a vote here or not, and I'm glad that he doesn't. What bothers me about him is that he is not well educated on the subject, repeats time worn old stereotypes and doesn't exhibit any independent thought process. He just parrots socialist views from the far left.


John

 

Finally, someone asks me - Okay, I'll will try and explain myself in the best way I can. My english isn't perfect, so I will try the best I can.

Everytime a foreigner, as an example; me, comments on your country's whatever (ex. Government) people in here react as they were being attacked personally. I totally, for me, weird way to react. Then the Americans in here starts there hetz against me, because now I have, in their opinion, pissed all over them and their entire country. "We are America, god bless us, and no one else. We are the biggest and do what pleases us, and no one else. No one in Europe shall tell us what to do, because we are the only superpower. The UN sucks, we don'´t.. and so on..." <- These remarks, as seen many times on this off topic board are the lines that makes my conclude the arrogancy. Hey, we are all arrogant sometimes, no doubt. But that is over the top. I get really pissed when someone thinks he is better than my, because he has more money or weapons or whatever. But he/her isn't. They ARE not better than me, despite my countries size. And sadly, thats the impression a lot of people outside the US get's these days. A lot of Americans come across this way - The socalled; Get outta my way or I'll kick you're ass attitude.

I would love one day to live in the US. Just not these days, everytime I see GWB in the news a hate rises in me, I get really agitated. It's hard to describe if you don't know the feeling. And this hate grows everytime something new pops up about him, but the thing that really did it was when I found out that he supported death penalty of minors and tried to ban gay-weddings via the constitution.

What I don't understand in this forum is, why people in here can't accept other people's opinions, just because they are different to what they know. I have an opinion on GWB and the way he does things, but everytime I write something, I get bashed and called a socialist (Still don't understand that one. The person that can tell me whats wrong with being a socialist I will apoligise to. Because who said that a republican is better? Who decides that? Not America.)

That I don't understand, the narrowmindedness. If someone can give me a prober answer, instead of all the childish flaming all the time, I would appreciate it.

 

The above is exactly what I was talking about in my thread above.

Have you EVER considered, that my own thinking was socialistic? Is it really that hard to believe, that someone can think in other directions than yours, without being indoctrinated.

 

Since you haven't figured it out WE ARE BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

 

"What if Gore was the President?"

What if gravity stopped?
what if I stepped on a nail?
what if?
what if?
Blah blah!

 

Oh man, I give up. It's hopeless...

 

WE ARE THE BEST. USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1, USA #1,
This is fun.

 

Jonas: I will try to respond in a sincere way.
I did alot of work in Sweden over the years, and got to be friendly with my counterparts there, working closely day and night for many many months and years. The Swedish are a reserved people, and don't like to brag about their country, their culture or the beauty of their women or land, yet they are rightly proud of all. The business people there, thru the cultural exchange, even developed a pamphlet to hand out to Americans, explaining that our "cowboy" style is perceived to be too outspoken, too "big" and not refined. (They didn't say it quite that way, but that was the gist of it as i read it, being an American).

My Swedish friends and i had some good laughs about this, including the fact that i wear "cowboy boots" (even to the courts) and am always being confrontational and demanding, rather than mildly polite with other lawyers. When told that a certain procedure was not available under Swedish law, and that we really had no remedy, we created a typically American style request to the court, and actually got the relief we sought. After that, my Swedish friends better understood this sort of "can do" attitude; its not unique to Americans, but it is common among us.

I think you will find that most Americans are actually enormously proud of their country, even if they disagree with the government, or with certain factions within the country. We are, as you know, not a homogenous culture and have no common religion, ethnic background or set of beliefs, other than, perhaps, making, building, acquiring, inventing, and enjoying, things i think just about everybody, everywhere, from virtually all cultures throughout the world have in common. And, while we often come off as brash, know it alls, we just don't have time for the polite, get to know you gradually-style; we want to know what you do, what you think, get the answer, and get on with it.

It is certainly impossible to describe an entire culture or group of cultures, particularly as varied as in the US, in a few short paragraphs. But, its not simply a mean-spirited "we are better than you." Far from it. Usually, its just a way of saying: "show me how you do it, or do it better than me." Unfortunately, this is often perceived as "we are the only ones in the game" and people then question why they are even interested in the game. But, i don't think we invented capitalism, invention, productivity, or the desire to acquire. I think we have just been able to pursue that with little government, religious or other interference (even many who were not born into high social standing), and in the process, these values have become our sort of "religion" based on a belief that a person becomes better, and utilizes their talents or gifts when they strive. (This also explains the hostility we generally have toward "socialism," which is regarded as complacent, letting the government do it for you, and squashing individual incentive because of high taxes, etc).

 

Why Denmark sucks? It is a socialist Paradise. More bikes then people. The worst cars I have seen in a while. Stifling taxes. Crap food (monotonous). Narrow streets. Not a whole lot of fun things to do. It is obviously better then a whole lot of countries out there. But out of developed and some developing countries it really is at the bottom of the list. (I suspect it would be the same for other Scandinav countries, but I have not been there so won't comment.) Again this is an opinion on the country not the people, who seem to be nice if a little boring and named Sven.

 

Now that's a answer I can use. Very nice.

While I agree with some of the things, I disagree with others. That just the way it is and will probably never change.

But I will respond to your last statement.

Socialism is a form of rule that takes care of everybody. Yes, we have hight taxes. 50, almost 60 % of my income goes in taxes. But were you government let's people die on the streets, our government takes care of this. Builds homes to these people, makes sure they get some money to but food and so on. I will bet that our welfare system gives every person as much as a minimum wage job in the US. It's pretty good. Our roads are being updated all the time, we have free medical and hospital visits. There's a saying; "You cannot be poor in Denmark, unless you have chosen to"
It's a nice security to have. Knowing that I'm not gonna get mugged by some homeless guy or streetbum, because we have almost none Or un-employment rate is close to zero and very strict gun-control makes it almost impossible to have a firearm. I will bet that 50% of the people that lives in Denmark will live an entire lifetime without even seeing a gun in real life.

It's a very good way of doing things. In my opinion. You are very safe and there's close to 0% change of being poor. I love it.

 

I think you are talking about Sweden dude - Sven is a swedish name, and rare here. Our food is very colorfull. But the rest is true, except for the fun part. There's a lot of places to have fun here. Lot of Disco's and good resturants.

No, we don't have a Disney World, but we do have Legoland - hahaha

 

I understand unemployment in Denmark is closer to 5.1%, but that data may be a couple of years old. Anyway, Denmark is considered to have a high average standard of living, and that is admirable.

But it too is feeling the strain of trying to provide health care for all and trying to pay for it. Approximately 20% of the population is on some form of "transfer payments", i.e. welfare assistance. Another 25% of the work force works for the government, which doesn't contribute to the economic growth of the country.

So nearly half of the country does not contribute its fair share to the economy and the result is that the other half has to carry the load. Jonas, not only do you pay nearly 60% of your income in taxes (I believe the top personal tax rate is 59%) but don't you also have a 25% Value Added Tax on personal purchases? If so, out of the remaining 40% of a taxpayer's income, another 25% of that (10%) goes to the VAT, and each tax payer ends up with spendable income of only 30% of his or her gross income that can be used on goods and services.

The result is a comparatively high average level of living but also with few if any people able to earn, and keep, much more than the average. When the government takes 70% of your income, you may have close to a zero % chance of being poor, but also an equally small percentage chance of earning and keeping enough to be rich.

That is the problem that Americans have with socialism. Even in countries, such as Denmark, where at least a modified version of socialism seems to work, the cost in terms of lost incentive to work harder to improve one's economic well-being is simply too high. At some point, those in the economy who are the brightest and most industrious will leave for more favorable economic grounds, further weakening Denmark's people resources that are needed to carry the welfare state.

Is that why your first choice of country to live in is tax-free Monaco? Of course that is an expensive place to live, so how will you make enough money in Denmark to be able to afford to live in Monaco? I guess that is why a stop in the U.S. is part of your plan as well.

What does this have to do with Gore being president? Nothing, except that he and his party have two philosophies that many people feel will reduce the potential of the U.S.: namely a softness on defense and the terrorist threat that was demonstrated during the 8 years of the Clinton/Gore Administration, and a desire to move more toward a socialist-type of support system that will cause higher taxes and a reduction in economic vitality.

The two biggest mistakes that people assume about Bush is that he is stupid (educated at Harvard and Yale, he is plain spoken, which infuriates the liberal intellectual elite) and that he is immoral (he comes from a family that maintains religious values and he has had his own personal religious awakening, which also infuriates liberal secularists).

When you do come to the U.S. to make your fortune, Jonas, so that you can move to hobnob with the jet setters in Monaco, you will be better off having had Bush in the White House than if Gore had been there, or if Kerry were to get there.

You may not like him personally, but your wallet will.

John

 

Very nice post, very nice indeed. Yes, you are right. In everything. We pay addational 25% on goods, we call it "moms" - We also have the most expensive cars in the world. An Enzo here in Denmark would cost around 3 million dollars - It's sick. I don't want to live here when I get old, I wan't to live a place were I can pay as little in tax as possible. But I am lucky that I have grown up in a Country like this. You can't fail here. I see your point with the richness, but I guess money isn't that big of an issue here as it is in the US. You might be more capitalistic, I don't know.

5.3? I think that's and old number. I'm pretty sure it's lower than that

 

What do you meen? Please explain your concern?

 

Jonas

You may be coming around and, if you continue to learn and study, you just might release the capitalist that is trapped inside of your socialist being. You have just illustrated my point about how socialism cannot survive over the long term, as those who are able to produce will escape, leaving no one but the welfare recipients and those who are too dull to realize that they are being exploited. There will be no one left to pay the bills, and the system will collapse under its own weight.

It sounds nice to grow up in country where you can't fail, until you realize that you can't succeed, either. Like all adolescents becoming adults, it is time to leave "moms" behind and strike out on your own.

Before you leave Denmark, try to effect positive change in the system. You have had right of center governments in the past, and it is still possible to correct the course.

John

 

WHart

Excellent post.

John