What if MS retires next year? Imagine the joy of watching F1 again....

Well, let's see... with MS gone and presuming some idiot in Ferrari's other car... this last race would have had RB on pole walk steadily away from Alonso who walked steadily away from the rest. RB had more than a 30s margin over Alonso by race end.

Let's see... all those 2nd's RB has posted this season would be... hmmm... firsts! And, um, that means his margin in the season point totals would be a bit larger. And, uh, that means RB would be nearly double the points of his nearest competitor right now.

The ONLY way you get what you're looking for is if FERRARI retires from F1, not MS... or declines significantly in performance. Is that really what you want??

 

I hope Schumi retires will enough time for RB to get at least one world championship.

That would be like Kelsey Grammer's luck with Frasier after Cheers ended.

 

Can't you read the above posts. Its not Michael's fault he is fast and is winning all the races. How do you want wheel to wheel action when Michael leads the race 85% of the time!? Calling Rubens names does not help your case either. Rubens is a great driver that has pushed as hard as he can. Rubens has failed to score points in only one race. Michael is simply the best ever.

No one is forcing you to watch F1. Don't like F1, go away! You need to go follow NASCAR or something because you really like bumper car action.

 

Yoy aren't understanding. If MS is gone. What do you have? Everyone moves up one spot and nothing else. It wouldn't make anything better. Even if Ferrari goes, what do you have? Everyone move up two spots. If they get rid of most of the downforce, it should help a great deal. Why/ how can you blame the man winning, it's everyone else that appears to be slacking. Do you think the field will tighten up if MS leaves? Please explain if you do.

 

Kelsey Grammer looks alot like Rubens, too!

 

You are so wrong! If Michael was not there, it would be Rubens at number 1. If there was no Ferrari then the Renaults would have been the dominant team.

F1 has changed. This is a technical and strategy based motorsport. You want a bumper car wheel to wheel action, stop following F1 and go watch NASCAR.

 

Not necessarily. I believe a BIG portion of the current dominance of the car can be attributed to Michael. For two reasons: He is a great test driver and he motivates the team.

Just look at what happened in 1999 after Silverstone: The car's development stopped and the drivers went backwards on the grid. Michael doesn't do everything, but he is probably the most important/responsible person at the team for the success and I mean that more than "just" the driving in the race.

So I severly doubt, that with Michael gone, Rubens would just sit on pole and take win after win. I also don't think the team would fall back into oblivion as in the mid/late eighties, but they would loose their dominance.

 

I wonder how other drivers would fare in the Ferrari's? And likewise, how would MS do with another team? Clearly Ferrari has an edge over the competition.
I guess we are witnessing what happens when the best driver pares up with the best team. Sort of like the Yankee's beating up on everyone else!

 

Mr. Bond, you always crack me up! Ok Chris, I am going to post a new thread about, "Imagine the joy of watching the Williams team again now that JPM is gone! BUT, don't talk about JPM because I am not blaming him for the sad state of affairs before he left." While the first part is true, I have not stated that because I do not appreciate your flaming. THe point is, you would not sit sit still because you would automatically associate my comment to JPM! You can insist you meant something else, but it's the little things that slip out that show your true intent. It's not hard to figure you out. You have critisized MS because JPM ended up in the pasture on a stupid outside passing move. You critisized MS for JPM running over him in the tunnel. You critisize MS for winning by passing in the pits. I'm sure in your eyes MS was responsible for the hurricane damage in Florida. We all know that unless there is a trail of carbon fiber debris left behind a driver, you do not like them. So now you are calling Rubens names - and for what?!?!? Do I need to go on?

If you truely meant "the hypothetical", why didn't you title it, "How can they change things around to make the racing more exciting?" Or, "What suggested rule changes do you think make sense to improve overtaking?" - since that is one of your peeves. Or, "Considering the boys from Mc'cedes, BAR, and Renault, who do you think would win in equal cars?" But do not mention a driver in particular and then get pissed when people want to talk about it! It's hard to knock that JPM chip off your shoulder, but it's easy for all of us to see.
Jim

 

You make it sound like Ferrari ans MS were the "it" from the start. "Pares" isn't the correct word. When MS joined Ferrari, they were in the dumpster. From hard work and spirt came the champoinships.

 

A long time ago in the 1980s there was this team called Ferrari, they were doing so horribly that they were the laughing stock of the paddocks. Until a man named Jean Todt with the help of this guy named Michael Schumacher decided to take on the world of F1. It was 1996 and together with a fantastic crew of engineers and other specialists they turned the world of F1 upside down.

So why the hell should I feel bad that MS is winning. He deserves every win just like Ferrari deserves them. The team has worked their butt off to come where they are. The internet wasn't around in the 80s so I have no proof of my rants as ravings as a kid, I would go nuts because Ferrari was doing so bad. I prayed and prayed for a miracle to help the team and just hoped something good would happen. Think of the race last weekend, the fuelling system problem would have halted the race for Ferrari in the 80s but not these days.

Its atrocious to say that MS is bad for the sport. Did anyone think that maybe all the other drivers and teams are so darn pathetic they shouldn't be in F1. Last year was a tough year for Ferrari and MS told the team that the lapping by Renault must never be repeated. I have never seen another team work so hard and be so dedicated towards victory. Hail Ferrari and hail MS, I for one will miss this era when its all said and done. But, I have the memories of watching MS on tv and watching the races live at Indy. I have my memorabilia that I will show my future kids and tell them about one of the greatest driver's that ever raced and how he helped a floundering team become the best in the sport.

MS in F1:

1992 Benetton 3
1993 Benetton 4
1994 Benetton 1
1995 Benetton 1
1996 Ferrari 3
1997 Ferrari DSQ (originally 2)
1998 Ferrari 2
1999 Ferrari 5
2000 Ferrari 1
2001 Ferrari 1
2002 Ferrari 1
2003 Ferrari 1

 

I'm kind of in both camps on this one and will readily admit I don't have any answers or solutions. But here are my thoughts.

I think MS is the best driver and Ferrari is currently the best team that any of us will probably ever see in our lifetimes. In many ways it is very exciting to watch and be a part of this period. But....

I'm not usually getting up to watch it anymore. I already know the outcome- it's the usual parade and the only question this year is whether Renault or BAR will take third. It's quite boring IMO and those of you who say we're whining and go elsewhere rest assured I (along with an increasing number of others I suspect) usually are. That can't be good for the sponsors or, ultimately, good for F1. That kind of take it elsewhere perspective is very limited, IMO.

Contrary to those who think this is a strategy and technology based sport I think this is, at least lately, primarily a money based sport. I am not belittling Ferrari when I say this- their success, IMO, is due to an incredible confluence of personalities, talent, respect, teamwork and sheer effort. But you better believe that budget plays a big part in their success.

And while I am leery of anything that reduces the emphasis on technology in F1 (much less penalizes success) we should admit that the rules have always been a compromise between safety, technology, competition, money and other, lesser factors. If you don't agree ask yourself how many other racing series promoted as pinnacles of technology refuse to allow slicks or limit wheel diameter to around 15 inches? F1 cars aren't beautiful- they're freaking ugly balloon tired over winged parodies of cars IMO- even if they may sound like heaven.

I think the rules should be adjusted to reduce the emphasis on money and promote more competition- this can be done without putting penalties on those who are successful (unlike the NASCAR and other series rules). What these changes would be I don't know (reduced aero, manual shifters, lowering of entry bonds might be a start...) but F1 has, can and will benefit from continued change. Certainly the qualifying could be adjusted- admit it- how many of you really watch it anymore?

As a final thought, I suspect Ferrari will continue to dominate for the foreseeable future (read: next year) even with the more immediate changes being forecast but if Max has his way I suspect Ferrari may sooner, rather than later, become a victim of their own success. Bad for Ferrari? Not necessarily, IMO. Certainly better for the sport- and no doubt better for the fans and spectators who are, after all, the real reason F1 exists.

 

I'm wondering if English is common for you. You just aren't reading correctly. I don't care about the MS vs. JM thing. Read my posts. If you get rid of MS. That in itself will not increase passing. It won't make other driver quicker. It will just add one position to all the drivers. The lack of passing/ joy your topic mentions, must come from the rules of areo packages. To make all cars closer you must change up the theme. The cars are so fast that there can be very very little passing through the turns. And when going down the straights, the car in front comes off the last turn goin faster, thus little passing there too. You don't need anyone gone, you need some wings gone. Do you understand now?
Don't "skim" the text. Read it.

 

GTO, I think he was talking about me.

Dude, YOU were the one to bring up MS in your initial post. YOU were talking about life without MS and how it would be diferent. YOU were the one who got pissed when people started talking about the driver YOU listed. This is not about me. THe analogy I made about Williams and JPM was to help you understand why people were comenting about MS on your post!

As far as you being critical of MS, I could go through the archives and copy numerous posts you have made (all having to do with his encounters with JPM) - and that is fine, I have no problem with that! But don't make a post about F1 without MS because it sucks now and then claim he is your all time favorite! THat is why people are having a hard time understanding your "hypothetical".

And dude the reason I get personal with you is because when I first started posting on this site, I made an innocent tongue-in-cheek comment about JPM. I thought I may have insulted your manhood the way you came back and flamed me personally. And the next post and then the next. Hey, once I know the running rules I can play! What goes around..... Sorry to air the dirty laundry everyone.

Oh, and I love this F1 sport more than you will ever know - not just MS and Ferrari. The diference between you and I is that I have seen the sport develop over 30 some odd years into what it is today, and that is why I am so critical of certain current drivers, owners, principles, and teams. I also realize everyone has their own opinions and I certainly respect them.

Peace!
Jim

 

MS is not the problem. Put KR, JPM, MW, JB, FA in the Ferrari and they will be winning races.

 

Unfortunately I think the thread has degraded into the usual series of charges and countercharges. Too bad because I think it is an interesting premise.

Neither MS or Ferrari will dominate forever- although I think they have a year or two left. While some of us may not want to see that (or even want to admit it) the majority of fans, I think, would prefer to watch some real racing and a little uncertainty for a change.

The cheers that erupted when MS was "taken out" at Monaco say a lot.

 

Quote:
Jim- I find it utterly incredible how you make things up about what I write. I will paypal you $1,000 dollars for every instance you can show I wrote what you claimed I wrote, show me where I:

-sounded piss
-critical of MS
-flame you personally

Well Jim,

It's an interesting offer isn't it? Maybe you can fund the repairs needed to your car you eluded to in prior posts!!

Cheers

 

Good post, and 100% right.

No matter how much of a fan we are for Ferrari and MS ... it is boring! Yes I know we had to wait 21 years and it is our turn now ... but it is still boring.

It is NOT boring because MS and Ferrari is winning. It is the way they are winning, ie. there currently is NO challenge, because all the other teams are fncked and Ferrari have chosen an impotent number 2 (IMO).

I do so very much hope that Williams and McLaren make a super car next year and we have a battle ... and it would be great if MS still won for Ferrari, but say at the last race of the year by 1 point

Pete

 

Wow! Are you serious? Just how big is your credit line? Gee, let's start with the first one. Oh....how about this post? Your initial post stated the "Joy of watching F1" if MS retires. Anyway, people started to respond basically saying that they do not want MS to retire or that it would not make any diference. You shot back about how "I knew you guys would jump into automatic defend MS mode, so predictable." Hey, maybe you were not pissed then but I did a quick search and any critical comment about JPM and you are all over it. Critical of MS? How about your title of this post? I also pulled up 3 where you insisted MS expects and receives prefered FIA treatment and thinks he should be able to get away with anything because his name is Schumacher. Personal flames? Man you are going to be broke! ANy reference to Montoya and you freak! It's easy to pull your chain! I'll share just one that I think you will remember. Remember the post I made about the Columbian girl I talked to at EPCOT? I shared with everyone her views about JPM and you toasted me!!! And I have NEVER gone after you unless you draw first blood. All this in a 2 minute search. I can go on...?

I'll tell you what, just to prove to you that I do have a sense of humor - how about we come to a reasonable agreement. My 308 60K service is coming up in about 15,000 miles. Instead of owing me 10's of thousands of dollars, how about I just send you the bill for the service? I'm not unreasonable! I'm really a nice guy when I'm not on fire!

Truth be told, I would just like a commitment to a cease fire and hope for some interesting discussion. How about it?
Jim