what is "dated?"

OK - let me try to get this started right.

A post 1969 Camaro Z-28, for example is dated.

So is the high-school dropout girl who owns one.

 

i like the phrase "timeless appeal" it really fits.
to me it says the design may have aged, but the car is still so desirable.

yes the 308 has aged albeit very gracefully - in my eyes it will always be a wonderfully pretty design an that wont change, but its no longer a modern shape.

i can think of precisely one car that has avoided this dating issue and thats
the original Lamborghini Countach LP400 . The design and shape is as fresh today as when it was launched and with the exception of the small wheels and some colour coding it could be launched again today to a whole new series of buyers (and kids posters)

 

I have failed.

BTW, did you not mean to type Miura?

 

no i didnt.
the miura has aged, again gracefully and is in my eyes the most beautiful car of all time. You wouldnt be able to pull up anywhere though and have people think it was a new car.

come again ?

 

Failed to inject a modest amount of humor into what is an unanswerable and unsolvable thread.

 

Maybe this is as much semantics as good taste in cars. Everything is "dated" in the sense that it was made at a certain date in time. Even modern cars.

Maybe we should ask - did it look good when made, and does it still look good today?

Bugatti 35B GP car - dated, yes. Good looking? absolutely.

Pontiac Aztec or Smart 4-2? dated, definately. Good looking? NO. Not now, not ever.

 

lol - thing is we posted at virtually same time, so i hadnt seen your post when i made mine.

 

"Dated" is a pejorative term, referring to details that are no longer part of the design language.

A Jag XK120 is of an era, but not "dated" in the sense that it is no longer perceived to be attractive. It's simply an attractive antique car.

Obvious examples of "dated" are the 'screaming chicken' on the Pontiac Trans Am, gold BBS wheels on every German car and T-tops. Arguably, 5mph bumpers as on the Porsche 911 (pre 964) and 308 are dated, in that manufacturers don't include those anymore. (But look at the Euro 308 for the original design.) 'Landau' vinyl roofs on American cars, ditto - although Caddy still has them as an option for the 90-up crowd who used to enjoy them on their Packards.

GM's plastic cladding - especially Pontiac's, and the Chevy Avalance (first version) - seems dated already.

The 308 has escaped its era, in that it is still admired and imitated (Corvette C6), albeit with its 1980s 5mph bumpers left behind. The Lotus Esprit and Porsche likewise. The usual scapegoat for "dated" comments is the TR, but seen in person the design continues to be stunning.

If you want to generalize, domestic carmakers and Japanese have had a harder time with "dated" than the Europeans. The 280ZX, Subaru SVX, Mitsu 3000GT, Celica Supra, etc., are all either forgotten or mildly embarassing now, whereas the European cars those models sought to dethrone are mostly classics (i.e., you can drive around in a 1978 Porsche 911 or Ferrari 308 be seen as being possessed of a good sense of retro-cool, whereas driving around in a 1979 Celica Supra or 280ZX suggests you're still a bit of an Andy Gibb fan.)

 

I would, for the most part, agree.

Design elements such as plastic cladding, screaming chickens and gold BBS wheels are 'dated' in that they represent a very specific design trend that immediately identifies a specific period of time AND did not evolve any further.

The TR's strakes to me are dated..the rest of the car is not..which is why I soooo love the 512.

 

New cars usually reflect the design clues of that era. Over the next few years, styles slowly change and most cars start to reflect the past and not the present. Most 10 year old cars are "dated" and this is seen as a bad thing: they are old cars. The TR is a perfect example. It was cutting edge when it came out, but 10 years later, with the knife nose, side strakes etc., some people thought it looked rediculous and "dated". Styles had changed.

As more time goes by, the inherent beauty a car has, if it has any, makes the current style irrelevent. Obviously the TR is not a new car, but those who love it will now say it's "timeless". The 308 is one of the most amazing designs ever in that it NEVER looked out of style. Car designs like that are rare though. Most go through that "ugly, unloved" stage before they become timeless and sometimes it's hard to predict which ones will.

When the 246 came out, that style was already a "60's thing" and critics frequently lambasted it for being outdated. Obviously they didn't see it would have a lasting beauty regardless of when it was made.

Ken

 

OK - I agree +++ on the Testarossa (for obvious reasons).

However, I have a bone to pick on the comment that the 246 was viewed as a "60s" thing. I was there, nearly ready to buy one in the early seventies, drove it, and read every single word I could find on it. My first Ferrari experience.

I do not believe that I have ever read a word which held against the styling in the automotive press of the day. The criticisms were in the power, possible reliability (vs Porsche on each), and the regrettable marketing -as "almost a Ferrari". But that styling carried it right through all these years to it's present classic status.

I understand Bullfighter as well...we have pretty much similar taste in cars, but are using the word "dated" in a different light. Webster's probably agrees with Bullfighter. So now James will only use "dated" to mean "ugly bad taste in cars which will never get better in our children's children's lifetimes".

Andy Gibb? yuck - but I usually more associate Liberace with true automative (and other decorative) excess.

 

How can anyone forget to mention the raw agressive beauty of the F40. The late 80's was the kitch era, but the F40 will transcend it with ease.

Its looks hit me in a physical way when it was new, and still does 20 years on.

 

ive never thought of an F40 as beautiful - its too function over form.

Striking is the word id use, which canbe extremely attractive in itself, but is not beautiful

 

cars don't become dated....people do.

 

"form follows function" is a design ideal in it self. To me the F40 and the Mclaren F1 is 2 of the prettiest cars made.

But i agree that they do not have the elegance of the 275 shortnose or the 250 series.

 

A 512TR or F512m is hardly dated, IMHO. (though I can't claim the same of the original)

 

I really like Bullfighter's explanation and considering that, the F40 is definately 'dated', don't get me wrong I love it. But the giant wing on the back is not used anymore in super cars, of course some japanese cars come with them (lancers, STis) and some body kits are available for Civics and such, but I think they will prove to look 'dated' as well. Much like I think the current trend of painting the wheels black will soon be looked on as 'dated'.
Again I love the f40, but IMO it is dated.

 

1972 R&T; they did an issue with the cover story called "The Middies" and reviewed the 246, Bora, X 19, Europa, Pantera. They thought the 246 looked "too 1960's". BTW, the 246 is my favorite Ferrari.

Ken

 

OK Ken - but I still mostly remember the bulk of them fawning over that styling. So, the competition included the Bora, the X19 (????), the Europa, the Pantera?

Oh yes - now I think I remember this; it was about mid-engine sports cars in general, not cars of a certain price/performance class. Did they have a Porsche 914 in there? It certainly had some nice straight modernistic non-60s lines still admired today LOL.

Do you have the month of the issue? I have quite a few old R&T going back to the mid 60s - it would be interesting to have a look at that.

PS - It's almost my favorite too - if I could have any one other Ferrari to go with the TR, it would be a 246 Berlinetta in dark red/black and without the "flares & chairs". I think I had my one good chance years ago and missed it.

 

although new here ... i think the ferrar512 bb is stunning but to go back further how about ( i almost hate to say) toyota 2000 gt?? what were ther maybe 6 conv. made and a total of 50 cars jus' my .02$