What is happening to Ferrari??

Ferrari could make money if it went back to making sports cars. In fact, it has an effectively unique market position and license to pursue that path and overcharge for its products. Porsche may get that kind of position if the VW merger goes through, but in the meantime Porsche must make sedans and trucks to keep its business in the black. Ferrari doesn't have to sweat it.

BMW and Audi can charge a premium, but ultimately their products have to serve some practical purpose.

Toyota does not have that option, so it must make Camrys and other appliances.

When Toyota makes dull utilitarian cars, I can accept that. Ditto Ford, GM and Honda. With Ferrari, the "well they're making money" perspective is a complete cop out. Rolex could probably make digital watches and turn a profit, but that's not why the economy affords Rolex such a long leash on its prices.

 

+ 1

 

No, what you really mean is that you want them to go back to making YOUR IDEA of a sports car.

Unfortunately, the world moved on since 1985.

This stuff gets so tiring.

Make them smaller (...but I can't fit in it!)

Learn from Lotus (...but no one buys them)

Make them cheaper (... but don't make so many!)

Give them back 6 speeds (... but no one drives a manual anymore).

You want a all out sports car? Buy a Scud. It's only lost 100 grand off of it's MSRP in the last year because people are SELLING THEM instead of living with them.

I hate to say this but if the 328 were made today and it was sold in 2012 dollars, it would be a major failure. The fact that about 10 times more 458's are sold each year than 328's change hands is pretty much proof were people's heads are at.

And, it ain't 1985.

 

Im not arguing with your general point as I do believe that, business-wise, Ferrari is doing things right.

However, I think Lotus has been a huge success this decade... I dont know why you would say 'nobody buys them'

 

I am exaggerating to make a point but if you look at Ferrari 458 sales vs their latest-- the Evora, it's night and day.

Both "sports cars". One is small, light, and cheaper.. and the other is selling better.

We had a dealer open up selling only Lotus in the South Bay. It was run and financed by South Bay BMW so you know it was run well. It had about 20 Elises on the lot at any one time. It lasted 6 months. The same dealer now sells used BMW's there.

 

It may be a cop out. But as long as people keep buying what they make for full-boat retail, I suspect Ferrari is gonna keep on doing what it is doing.

Come to think of it, Ferrari would probably still be doing whatever it is they are doing even if they were losing money because, well, they are Ferrari. The company doesn't respond well to feedback of ANY kind!

Dale

 

HAHA! So true...

MB

(If it doesn't have three pedals, it is not likely I will be driving it...)

 

Are you sure you're not talking about GM?

 

I'm not arguing your point either but if Lotus was so successful with their lightened and small power philosophy why have they decided to completely change their game?

 

No, I'm specifically talking about Ferrari. I have heard it said the company's attitude is a insecure, but arrogant, Italian thing. At Ferrari, there is only the Ferrari way and no other.

Dale

 

You miss my point entirely. You're beef about not specific to Ferrari. If you want to see real arrogance in action, talk to someone at GM.

I have a real question: If you guys hate Ferrari so much, why do you keep posting here?

 

Because (1) I love driving Ferraris, and (2) I enjoy the company of people who own or have owned Ferraris.

Dale

PS And there is also this -- http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317436

 

I see.... you love the cars and the owners but just hate the company. Is that it?

 

I am not hating on the FF but you can't possible be making the argument that Ferrari's comfy 4 seaters are where the money is and the pure bred sports cars are dogs/bad buys. I think history has shown that out. The release of the 458 would have an impact on the 430 and if the Cali was replaced tomorrow it would drop as well. Again, and this is not a challenge to the car but just a general question, does anyone know what the production goal is for the FF?

 

I'm sure the production goal is probably a bit higher than the 612 but not by much. Ferrari needs this kind of car to round out the range. I bet a lot of the technology ends up in the new 599.

No, I'm not making that argument at all that 4 seaters are the bread and butter. However, some would argue that the FF and California mean that Enzo is spinning in his grave and the Ferrari world has come to an end:

"Oh! Where are the great sports cars of years gone by????"

Those that do have somehow forgotten the 400 and the Mondial 8 that were built while Enzo was still alive and kicking.

 

I have to think that most purchasers of 458s do not mothball them, hoping to unveil them in 30 years as never-driven classics.

They're a classy car, and by all reports a blast to drive.

Sure, when you own something "that nice," there is a tendency not to use it as a daily driver, but many use them for that purpose.

It would be interesting to see if you can provide any proof for your claim ...

 

I'm waiting now for the flood of pictures of 458s and their drivers blazing down the road or tearing it up on the track

When people hack all over the Cali or FF ("oh dear, the old man would NEVER have done anything like that!!") they seem to forget that the old man drove a 330 series I, how many photos of him blazing around in the four-eyed monster are floating around the internet (my favorite car, BTW)? Think he hated the 412? Doubt it!! Both of those designs PUSHED THE ENVELOPE, which is what Ferrari has been all about since the beginning. Ever spot some of the ghia-bodied specials? How about some of the Bertone one-offs? PUSHING THE ENVELOPE!!!

The FF is simply badass, I think it's much more distinctive than the 612 and a heckuva lot more useful for people with families. AWD? Probably will be as common as paddle-shifters and ceramic brakes in a couple years. The shooting brake design has been around for decades, it's about time we see it on a car that does 200+ mph.

Personally, I think Ferrari should forget about making money and produce a 6 cyl Dino and sell it to me at 1970s prices

 

Totally agree with one exception..The 458 is beautiful to my eyes though i'd never own one as they're not available with the manual gated shifter.

 

Ferrari is very right in building a car that is well built, reliable, and has spectacular performance, it's what Porsche has been doing for a while now. The only difference is that Ferrari hasn't lost it's magic or emotional appeal, that's in part why I think these past few years have been so successful

 

How are they changing their game ? They are simply adding models in different performance/price segments.

Thats what you do to grow...you dont add another model(s) that are in direct competition with your previous models.

 

The Eterne, Esprit, Elite, and less so Elan are all making due with big engines and big power, not exactly what their current strategy is about. A lot of the British press are fearing the future of Lotus, does that necessarily matter? No, Lotus still has a structuring for lightweight but I would imagine "lotuschat" would be up in arms over these new offerings. This points out that the Elise and Exige (which are fantastic sports cars) weren't quite enough to cut it, though they have helped Lotus gain the ability to develop new cars and offerings.