What is the torque for CV joint screws? | FerrariChat

What is the torque for CV joint screws?

Discussion in '308/328' started by RichardAguinsky, Jan 3, 2009.

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  1. RichardAguinsky

    RichardAguinsky Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2007
    478
    Palo Alto, Californi
    Full Name:
    Richard Aguinsky
    Now all my 4 CV rubber boots are broken so I'll have to replace them.

    I found the proceedure for replacing them on several posts, including the VW link.

    What I can't find is the torque for tightening the CV joint Allen screws. What should I torque them to? The nuts appear to the the non reuseable ones, though I see everybody is reusing them. Should I use medium strength blue locktite or maximum stregth red?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. st@ven

    st@ven F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2008
    3,318
    Germany
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    Steven
    it's 80Nm

    I re-used the nuts only replaced the damaged ones. I did not use loctite
     
  3. blmjumper

    blmjumper Formula Junior

    Jun 18, 2006
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    Ty
    I replaced all...easy enough and not expensive.

    Somebody double check my torque specs.

    Axle shaft flange to wheel shaft - 158.5 ft. lb.

    Axle shaft to flanges - 57.5 ft. lb.

    I don't note using loc-tite as the nuts were of locking variety
     
  4. blmjumper

    blmjumper Formula Junior

    Jun 18, 2006
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    Can't find my repair notes this a.m......and I just had to post number 300 for me.
     
  5. blmjumper

    blmjumper Formula Junior

    Jun 18, 2006
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    And also of note.....it's a messy job. Very, very messy.

    There's a great step-by-step around here somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up.
     
  6. RichardAguinsky

    RichardAguinsky Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2007
    478
    Palo Alto, Californi
    Full Name:
    Richard Aguinsky
    Yes. That is one of the links I was following, it has the Allen bit and the Napa part number for the tool I need.

    Here is another from VW posted on this forum:

    http://www.type2.com/bartnik/cvjoints.htm

    The torque is quite different for flange and wheel:

    Axle shaft flange to wheel shaft - 158.5 ft. lb.
    Axle shaft to flanges - 57.5 ft. lb.

    Aren't these the same nuts and bolts? Will that little Allen head survive 160 lb/ft?

    I'm off to Sears or OSH for the Craftsman 8 mm Allen bit. I just hope I don't damage any bolts and that I can get them out. The posts with the high speed grinder concerned me.
     
  7. blmjumper

    blmjumper Formula Junior

    Jun 18, 2006
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    It does seem like a lot of torque. I got my replacements from Tacoma Screw & Fastener and if I remember, they gave some good advice.

    I wish I could find my notes to see what I really did, but since the move, things have been difficult to locate.

    Hopefully somebody else will chime in....
     
  8. blmjumper

    blmjumper Formula Junior

    Jun 18, 2006
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    I let the nuts soak for a long time with the liquid wrench. A daily application over a week or so....and it wasn't too horrible.
     
  9. st@ven

    st@ven F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2008
    3,318
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    I'm pretty sure both flanges have the same torque to be applied: 80 Nm
     
  10. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
    BANNED Professional Ferrari Technician

    Apr 26, 2006
    3,664
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    David Feinberg
    This spec: "Axle shaft flange to wheel shaft - 158.5 ft. lb. is not for the CV joint to flange bolts. There's no way that a 10 or 12mm Grade 12.9 fastener would withstand that torque without breaking! The figure you reference is likely for the stub axle flange, within the rear upright that sets the preload on the rear wheel bearings.

    As both the inner and outter CV joint hardware is the same nut and bolt confirguration, the torque specs would be the same as you correctly referenced as 57.5 ft-lbs.

    And I too never saw the need to use any LockTite products on these fasteners, as the nuts (particularly if new) are of the "self-locking" variety...

    Regards,
    David
     
  11. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    Feb 17, 2006
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    All the VWs I've dealt with have a different system on the wheel side than Ferrari. The VW has a splined snout that slides through the center of the wheel bearing and has a big ol' nut on the end. This nut has some serious torque applied to it! Next time you see a VW without a wheel cover (situation normal for about 90% of busses for some reason, you can see this nut). Actually this also seems satndard for front drive cars. So that's the reason for torque differences.
     
  12. blmjumper

    blmjumper Formula Junior

    Jun 18, 2006
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    Thanks David....

    Found my notes this a.m. and used the 57.5 ft lbs. w/o loc-tite.
     
  13. RichardAguinsky

    RichardAguinsky Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2007
    478
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    Richard Aguinsky
    57 lb/ft for that Allen screw and thin nuts? If someone else did it, I'll trust that the bolts will not snap.

    If I can get the nuts and bolts out intact, most likely I will reuse them. My understanding is that once these nuts are removed, they are not reusable, hence I was planning in Loctite to reuse them.

    I'll try it and let the list know how this goes.

    Thank you all for your input!

    Ps: I am not looking forward to the mess...
     
  14. Corsa308

    Corsa308 Formula Junior

    Apr 22, 2007
    290
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    Steve D
    Straight from the workshop manual for the 308.
    8kgm which works out to 57.9 ft/lb.
    I have used this torque setting with no probs.
    The larger figure (158.5) is for the flange to wheel shaft from the Diff.
    Yes that is a high figure but a large nut and thread to boot. 27mm as opposed to 10mm.

    Steve
     
  15. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    Yes, it's a lot of torque for those nuts. They are supposed to be TIGHT and that's why they are so hard to remove in many cases. I would not recommend using loc-tite unless you never ever plan to remove them again! ;) 57 ft-lbs plus loc-tite=stuck!

    I have reused the bolts no problem. Just replace the ones that get messed up during removal.

    Birdman
     
  16. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    FYI....not to nitpick, but some of you are misusing the torque units. It is ft-lb, spoken "foot pound" or "pound feet" and calculated as: force times the length of the moment arm, in this case feet. (A better unit is actually the Si unit Nm, Newton meters, because Newton is a true unit of force, as opposed to a pound.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

    It's not expressed as ft/lb or lb/ft as some have been using.

    Birdman
     
  17. desire308

    desire308 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2007
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    #18 desire308, Jan 5, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2009
    Just finished the same job last month...the 57.5 number is what I used. Plenty of torque. No Loctite ;)

    It did feel closer to the high number getting them off though! Lots of brute force and PB Blaster.
     
  18. RichardAguinsky

    RichardAguinsky Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2007
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    #19 RichardAguinsky, Jan 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Almost done. It took quite a bit of work to get those Allen bolts off. I can't believe I went over 10 pairs of latex gloves so far!! I used to do this with my bare hands when I was young!

    It took longer to clean the grease mess from the leaking CV boot did in the engine bay then cleaning the CV joints. This job was actually easier than repacking bearings.

    When I was ready for banding the CV boots, I went to my local Napa store and it is now closed (Mountain View, anybody knows for how long?). So I got a similar one at Carquest, only $11!!!

    Carquest STL 30950 CV Joint Banding Tool.

    This tool was VERY easy to use with the stainless steel bands.

    Two questions:

    1) The differential seal is not leaking. Should I remove the diff flange and replace the seal with an OEM anyway? I have been reading that it is not easy to get the flange bolt off. If I decide to do this, should I drain the transmission fluid first? Is the fluid level above the lower part of the inner seal?

    2) There was no gasket or RTV on the CV joints to the diff flange or wheels. I did not find any posting on how to keep CV grease from oozing out. Should I apply a thin layer of RTV or will it be redundant?

    57.5 pound per foot or foot per pound is what I'll use to torque the allen bolts.

    Thank you all for your responses.
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  19. RichardAguinsky

    RichardAguinsky Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2007
    478
    Palo Alto, Californi
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    Richard Aguinsky
    160 lb/ft? No wonder I can't get that bolt to budge!
     
  20. RichardAguinsky

    RichardAguinsky Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2007
    478
    Palo Alto, Californi
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    Richard Aguinsky
    #21 RichardAguinsky, Mar 19, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017


    Restarting an old thread.

    The Napa CV stainless steel bands I used 5 years ago actually cut through all my new CV boots. The bands were not too tight to cut the rubber.

    The problem was when I took the car to Costco to replace the tires. They guy was spinning the wheels while on the lift to remove the wheel bolts.

    Now I am reluctant in using the sharp stainless steel bands again. The CV boot kit from AW came with bands that clip in place. My concern is that these clips may become undone as there is no locking mechanism, just the small friction latching teeth.

    Any experience with these?

    A suggestion I got from another mechanic was to use strong plastic zip lock ties to avoid cutting through the rubber. It is easier to replace a zip tie than it is to replace a boot.

    Suggestions?

    Thanks in advance
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  21. tatcat

    tatcat F1 World Champ
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    Sep 3, 2001
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    rick c
    just finished mine.
    a little heat from a torch loosened the nuts quite well.
    i used a thin metal band pulled tightly on my boots with no worries.
    i've never had a boot cut through by a band.
    the bands you've shown are good.
    i wouldn't use a plastic tie though.
    too much heat and oil.
    torqued both sides to 58 ftlbs although i set my wrench at 60.
     
  22. RichardAguinsky

    RichardAguinsky Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2007
    478
    Palo Alto, Californi
    Full Name:
    Richard Aguinsky
    I just finished replacing all four boots....again..... :(

    The ones from the OP were 5 years ago. The rubber was fine. The boots were all cut at the sharp edge of the large metal bands.

    This time I used plastic zip ties. Tip from a few Porsche and VW folks. I'll keep an eye on them. I can always install the metal bands if the zip ties do not work out.
     

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