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What is this mystery wiring...?

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Il Steeg, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
    101
    Sammamish, WA
    Okay, so I'm a newb... Now that's out of the way, we can get down to business...

    So, I've had the car (Euro-spec '88 3.2 Cabby, blu sera over crema) for a little over two years.

    Got it with the idea I could do my own maintainence, and I've been doing a few minor things (i.e. treating the leather interior - good progress so far, changing the spark plugs, replacing the battery, changing the plug wires, replacing the carbon 'stems' in the distributor caps, changing the oil and filters... you know, the 'little stuff..

    I've been gathering the tools (i.e. a Quickjack, etc.) and parts (belts, CV boots, etc) and studying what you folks and other have written and video'd about how to do these jobs getting ready to tackle the 'big stuff'....

    So, I'm not 'there', but I'd like to say I'm trying to 'get there'...

    So I'm reading a thread about someone having a slight misfire at idle, and how the person in question was told to check a relay in the floor of the trunk. I thought that I should check that, too, and since that seemed like something I could handle, I took a look.

    I took off the panel at the passenger side of the trunk, and behind that panel, next to the power antenna, was this blue box...
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  2. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
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    Sammamish, WA
    NO markings... About the size of a deck of cards or a old school pack of cigarettes.

    And taking off towards the engine compartment was an .... amazing ... wiring job.

    Yes, that's all electrical tape. the first connection 'north of the box appears to be a regular, graden variety snap together connector for automotive use.

    The next stop is - that's right - a 10 amp fuse just taped into the circuit.

    And above that, its'...... A wad of duct tape. Two wires enter - two wires leave...

    That leads into the engine compartment - back corner passenger's side. The wires appear to lead to this gold device

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  3. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
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    Sammamish, WA
  4. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
    101
    Sammamish, WA
  5. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
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    Sammamish, WA
    Can anybody help me out...? The car does not have any sort of updated ingnition system - still has coils and distributors, etc.

    There's no alarm or ignition disable system (or could this be the 'remnant of one...)

    What is it?

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  6. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
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    What is in the blue box, its not oem thats for sure
     
  7. mustbenuts

    mustbenuts Karting

    May 14, 2017
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    GR
    pull the fuse. If nothing bad happens, get rid of the contraption.
     
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  8. JimboMondial

    JimboMondial Karting

    Dec 26, 2005
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    Could it be a electrical fuel cut off? in the last picture it looks like its plumbed into the fuel line. or it could be a pressure data recorder? don't know why it would need such a big shunt resistor on the buckhead thou.

    JIm
     
  9. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
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  10. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
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    I like the idea, but the way the fuse is taped into the wiring, I'm not sure I could get it back in if I needed to.... :D
     
  11. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
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    Well, I thought about opening it, but I thought I should see if anyone had a clue what it was first..

    I didn't want to see a response like "You didn't open that did you? It's a ticking time bomb now!! Notify the authorities and your next of kin, and RUN !!!!!"

    :D
     
  12. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
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    Yes, but which seat, Ron? WHICH SEAT ?!?!? :D
     
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  13. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
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    Sammamish, WA
    So I followed the blue wires across the engine bay, and they appear to go two places...

    The taped wires come out at the yellow plug:

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  14. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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  15. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
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    There must be a splice in there (?), because the wires appear to split just before the yellow 'plug", and the other wires disappear below the air filter/intake...

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  16. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
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    What the heck IS that ?!?!
     
  17. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Apr 15, 2017
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    Sammamish, WA
  18. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
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    Are you sure it is not injecting fuel into the exhaust, flames out the back setup ?
     
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  19. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    #19 Steve Magnusson, Aug 14, 2019 at 12:57 PM
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019 at 1:08 PM
    That modification is for "federalizing" a euro version (K-Jet without Lambda) for US importation. It's the addition of a frequency valve (run by an added ECU) to slightly change the warm control pressure and provide a sort of "with Lambda" functionality that the US version has. There should also be an O2 sensor mounted in your exhaust stream which is also electrically connected to that same added ECU (if it's all still actually working). If you do a search on "quasi-Lambda", you'll get some prior threads on the topic. Many euro F models from the mid-80s got this modification when brought into the US. (Don't recognize your added ECU brand, but some other added "Lambda" ECU brand names were DC Johnson and Neutronics.)

    The large "gold" thingy is a low-resistance, high-power resistor probably suggested to be added into the +12V line going to run the added ECU to reduce any electrical noise on that line (if present).
     
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  20. Il Steeg

    Il Steeg Karting
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    Wow, Steve - you absolutely nailed it. Everything makes total sense now (except Ron's Ejector Seat Theory, but my mind is still 'open' on that one...) :D

    The car WAS federalized when it was brought into the US in the 90's...

    I was working on the exhaust last week, and was surprised to find an O2 sensor where I thought there should be none (cats - if it ever had them - are long gone...). That's where the single white wire (that crossed the engine bay and disappears below the overflow tank) goes!

    I've never even heard of "quasi-Lambda" before, but I bought a book on Bosch systems a while back, and I couldn't figure out why my system didn't really match up with what I was seeing in the book. Now I know what to be looking for!

    So, is the yellow 0 280 150 007 part an actual "Frequency Valve" (like I keep everyone talk abut when discussing misfires, etc), or is this something 'like' a FV?

    Do I still NEED this system for the car to work properly? In WA state, this is registered as a 'collector car,' and so does NOT need to be smog checked any more.

    The system itself is over 20 years old... How do I know if it indeed IS still working?

    Thanks again, Steve for shedding light on this. Once again, the level of technical knowledge on this site proves to be amazing!
     
  21. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Yes, it's the same frequency valve (AKA metering valve). Sometimes it wrongly gets called a "fuel injector". A better (but maybe less flattering) description would be "a controllable leak". The nominal warm-running signal supplied to it is a 50% duty cycle so it's nominally half-open (i.e. open half the time). In your case, when the duty cycle is increased, it leaks more from the control pressure circuit = lowers the control pressure = allows the plunger to move more for the same intake airflow = open the slits more = adds richness. And, likewise, decreasing the duty cycle makes things more lean. On a US model, changing the frequency valve leaking changes the lower chamber pressure (rather than the control pressure) so the US system has a much faster response.

    One thing you can do is just touch this added FV when the engine is running -- if it's vibrating/buzzing = it's still, at least, connected to the ECU and running (but could be open-loop or closed-loop). The next level would be to measure the voltage on the single wire of the O2 sensor while still connected to the ECU relative to ground during warm idle. If it's "swinging" every second or two from lean (<0.5 VDC) to rich (>0.5 VDC) = it's working as intended (closed-loop). Or if the O2 sensor is unplugged it will run open-loop (i.e., the FV will still buzz, but at a constant 50% duty cycle).

    If it's not buzzing/vibrating = the system is dead. One point is that if it is now buzzing and you remove it = you'll need to retweak the mixture adjustment. And, likewise, if you take a non-working FV and do something to make it work = you'll need to retweak the mixture adjustment.

    With regard to "NEED" -- that's up to you. Even though you have no inspection (and there are fewer and fewer places that do inspections), it is a legal thing. IMO, if the system is not working at all (FV not buzzing at warm idle) = that's some justification for stripping it all out and reverting to a stock euro K-Jet without Lambda configuration (but I'd keep all the parts), and would indicate the system's mixture was adjusted when the FV was dead. If it's working at least open-loop (i.e., the added FV is buzzing at warm idle) = I'd just leave it as is. If it's actually still working closed-loop = MIRACLE! ;)
     
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  22. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
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    Steve has never ceased to amaze me with his CIS expertise !!! Wow !
     
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  23. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
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    Steve's reply deserves some sort of award, amazing knowledge! Hard to believe that rather convoluted installation was an "official" modification. Did the car actually run better as a result of this, or just lower emmissions (not clear to me how the modification as described would lower emissions)?

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  24. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Won't disagree that that is done in a way that is higher up on the "ugly" scale with those obvious white wires and mounting that resistor in such a noticeable place, but, in terms of what and how it's been done, it's about the same as the others I've seen. Can't say that I've ever seen one where I've thought to myself: "Wow, that is very nicely done, and looks totally stock".

    Won't change how it runs, but, in theory, the engine would be operating more often more closely to stochiometric so should slightly reduce total emissions. However, I'd wager that is was more important to just be able to check "yes" on a bureaucrat's list of needed modifications that it has been changed to have some sort of "with Lambda" functionality like a US version.

    PS Thanks for the award ;)
     
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  25. jkstevens2

    jkstevens2 Karting
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    Aug 25, 2015
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    I think its your furductor
     

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