What is this tool? | FerrariChat
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What is this tool?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by maxyedor, Jan 23, 2015.

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  1. maxyedor

    maxyedor Rookie

    Aug 12, 2013
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    #1 maxyedor, Jan 23, 2015
    I acquired a handful of Ferrari parts and pieces with a larger lot of automotive parts and pieces, included in said lot was this thing. I'm told it's a factory Ferrari hub tool, and that it's very valuable, but I have no idea what sort of hubs it's a tool for, if everything in the box is actually part of the set, if I'm missing anything, and what "very valuable" means.

    Anybody have a guess or better yet, know exactly what this tool is for? The gentleman I got it from has owned too many Ferraris or different vintages for me to even take a guess as to which one it could have been for.

    The outside of the box
    [​IMG]

    The stuff in the box
    [​IMG]

    For some reason the tweezers and the brass piece don't look like they belong in the box. Also the small wrenches appear to be spoke wrenches perhaps?

    That "T" shaped piece with the round collar or it appears to be the same thread (though I haven't thrown a thread mic. at it) as the knock-off lugs I got in another crate, leading me to belive it is definitely a wheel service kit of some sort.
    [​IMG]

    The only piece with any identifying marks at all
    [​IMG]

    The box is slightly broken, those two "L" shaped bits of wood are cracked off, but could easily be glued back on
    [​IMG]

    Really is a pretty cool service kit, just have no idea what it's for
    [​IMG]
     
  2. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #2 El Wayne, Jan 23, 2015
  3. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
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    #3 275gtb6c, Jan 23, 2015
    Looks like an early Ferrari (212 Inter/Export) toolbox, if this is real and complete pretty valuable...

    ciao
    Oscar

    ps I looked for one some time ago but impossible to find.
     
  4. maxyedor

    maxyedor Rookie

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    #4 maxyedor, Jan 23, 2015
    Thanks for the links!

    Looks like I have the OEM version of this re-pro kit http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/138277175-post13.html. Now to find out exactly which car this is for and then find and owner in search of a tool kit.

    Also appears that the tweezers and brass shim are part of the kit, but the key-chain and Harbor Freight impact socket I found in the box, were most definitely not part of the kit.

    Cy was my great-uncle/ best guy I knew to go to a car show or race with. This tool kit was not his, if it were, it would probably be on my shelf of interesting family heirlooms.
     
  5. maxyedor

    maxyedor Rookie

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    #5 maxyedor, Mar 1, 2015
    Bringing this back up to the top, The tool kit was sold/shipped, and the buyer has questioned it's originality/authenticity. It's being returned to me, and money refunded, last thing I want to do is pass off a fake, if indeed it is a fake.

    Could anybody help me identify weather or not it's a a real factory kit, or reproduction?

    The welds on the tools appear to be very sloppy tig welds, except for one piece which appeared to be oxy-ace welded. The fact that they were partially tig. welded caused the buyer a concern, but it's a process I know existed in the 1950s, and I'd have assumed anybody with the skills to reproduce these, would have welded then more cleanly than this.

    The finish on the box itself was also a concern, but the finish of the wood (rough sawn vs smooth finish) again points me to the conclusion that it's older than it is new.

    Hoping somebody can shed some loght on how to spot a reproduction vs. an original.
     
  6. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
    566
    #6 lancia, Mar 2, 2015
    It appears to me from the pictures to be a reproduction box and tool set. The finish on the tools, especially the hub puller is not like the originals, the valve compressor tool looks too cleanly made, the box does not have a 50 year patina like original boxes I have seen; it just has the black finishes rubbing off the tools onto the wood. Looks just like reproduction mechanics box that was available in small quantities some years back.
     
  7. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    #7 Glassman, Mar 2, 2015
    I would say that if Tom doesn't already have it in his possession it is probably a reproduction. That doesn't mean it isn't worth a ton of money.
     
  8. maxyedor

    maxyedor Rookie

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    #8 maxyedor, Mar 3, 2015
    What were the tools originally finished in? Most of the tools in this kit appear to be blued, or tool-black. The hub puller looks like it could be black oxide. The different coatings were also part of the reason I thought it was original.

    Assuming it is a reproduction, any idea who was making the reproductions, or where I mite find more info on them?

    Care to hazard a guess as to what a "ton of money" may mean? Trying to establish a fair asking price, based on the response I got in the initial for sale ad, I was significantly under the market. Need to find this kit a new home.
     
  9. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

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    #9 lancia, Mar 4, 2015
    Yes, originals were black oxide, but the finish on the puller gives it away, a satin, non-oiled finish, looks like a black phosphate finish as compared to black oxide, I doubt it is an original puller. These repro machanic's kits were around $4,000 when made if I recall, some years ago. No idea what one would pay for this now, but nowhere near as valuable as an original.
     
  10. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #10 El Wayne, Mar 4, 2015
    I would trust Tom Shaughnessy to know and be able to explain the difference. I notice that he offered to buy the item from you without negotiation in your classified thread. Was Tom the buyer who is now returning the item?
     
  11. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3

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    #11 Enigma Racing, Mar 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It is interesting to see that the box layout differs with each set of pictures as well as to the Merritt book

    Can anyone tell me what each tool is for ?
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  12. maxyedor

    maxyedor Rookie

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    #12 maxyedor, Mar 4, 2015
    No, another member PMed me a few hours before Tom. As soon as I get the kit back in-hand I'll send him a PM and see what he thinks.
     
  13. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    #13 John Vardanian, Mar 4, 2015
    Question re the valve depressor... does the kit come with different mounting blocks or are there different kits for different series motors? For example, on the 508 series (a motor I am familiar with), not all the roller box studs are the same distance from one another. In the above picture the block at the end of the depressor has only one pair of holes, so technically, this valve depressor will not depress any valve in the 508 motor.

    john
     
  14. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    #14 DWR46, Mar 5, 2015
    John: Yes, different kits came with different pieces. I have a "wooden box" kit for a Four Cylinder car, and it works for Mondial's, Monza's, TR's, etc. It does not have the parts needed for the V-12's.
     
  15. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

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    #15 Bryanp, Mar 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Dyke; we could have used your 4-cylinder box! We had access to a Lampredi v-12 box and used its valve depressor, but made a base for it out of aluminum billet for the Mondial's cam box stud spacing. We also made the home-job spring depressors from door hinges and a little welding to screw the mousetrap spring tabs down on either side of the valve stem.
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  16. DWR46

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    #16 DWR46, Mar 5, 2015
    Bryan: Very nicely engineered! I like it.
     
  17. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    #17 John Vardanian, Mar 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    #18 DWR46, Mar 5, 2015
    John: That is AMAZING! I did not realize that you could purchase Ferrari FACTORY tools at ACE Hardware. Thanks for letting everybody know. I am on my way there to get as many as I can before all the other Ferrari owners clean them out.
     
  19. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    #19 John Vardanian, Mar 5, 2015
    Okay Dyke, I am humbled, but I have to say you'd come across more sincere if you dialed down the enthusiasm ;)

    john
     
  20. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

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    #20 Bryanp, Mar 5, 2015
    niiice; John, does your tool also accomplish the task of depressing the spring tabs on either side of the valve stem? I am pretty sure the springs on the 4-cylinder motors are heavier duty than the ones on the 12s, hence the need for our "hinge" tool.
     
  21. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    #21 DWR46, Mar 5, 2015
    Bryan: I think you are correct. In a quick look, the Lampredi V-12 springs are 4.0 mm, while the Four cylinder springs are 4.5 mm wire diameter.
     
  22. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    #22 John Vardanian, Mar 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Bryan, to answer your question, yes. The little round thing fits to the end of the wrench socket and presses down on the tabs and the cutout in the wrench socket allows finger access to the keepers.

    john
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  23. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

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    #23 Bryanp, Mar 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    aah; that's pretty nifty!

    ok, so since we're a little off-topic to the OP's post, do you have one of these?

    What do you use to get the return springs on the 15" drums back reassembled? The return springs are huge (about the size of one's index finger) and require an immense amount of force to close the 3/4" gap between them and lock them into each other. It used to take me about an hour and a lot of cursing to get the entire set (of 8) re-hooked.

    We cannibalized a pair of long-nosed needle nose pliers, using the bench grinder and dremel. The pliers now have a narrow hook on the one side, and a machined cup in the other face, which is about 1/4"? shorter than the other leg. The spring task is now reduced from 60 minutes to about 4 seconds.
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  24. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    #24 John Vardanian, Mar 5, 2015
    Bryan, that's way cool. So, it looks like the hook tip of the pliers would get in the way of the "?" of the opposite spring, but apparently it doesn't.

    john
     
  25. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #25 Vincent Vangool, Mar 6, 2015
    Like the direction this thread is taking. Very cool to see the homemade tools and ingenuity.
     
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