What Makes a 348 Challenge a Challenge Car? | FerrariChat

What Makes a 348 Challenge a Challenge Car?

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars/Track' started by Jasonberkeley, Sep 29, 2017.

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  1. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2017
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    Jason Berkeley
    Hi all,

    Im considering the purchase of a 348 Challenge and am trying to educate myself. Ive tried searching and reading through the threads on here and searching the web in general and im not having much luck on this.

    Im trying to find exactly what all of the parts were that went into the 348 Challenge kit, if the kits were all the same or if there were different versions, and did the kit include any provisions for changing the suspension geometry.

    Also, trying to determine if there is a list of the serial numbers for 45 US factory "pre-prepared" Challenge cars built in 1994, and also if there is a summary of what exactly the factory did to those cars.

    Last question would be if an earlier 348, such as a 1990, had a kit ordered that was partially installed in period (full cage including door bars and roof cross members, seats, harnesses, steering wheel, electric cut-off), but was never raced, is it still considered a Challenge car, and is it's value diminished over one that was raced only a handful of times?

    Any help with answering the above or pointing me somewhere with this info would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Jason
     
  2. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    May 20, 2003
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    Just to supplement my response to your other, related thread, while many would disagree with me, a factory Challenge car without the Challenge equipment (some had the Challenge kit as a "delete", some had it removed when they no longer raced, and some just never had the installation completed and the kit went astray) isn't really a Challenge car. It may be the latest and rarest 348 (and that's nice), but it's not a race car- to me at least, that diminishes its value.
     
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  3. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2017
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    #3 Jasonberkeley, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
    Thanks Ira. Appreciate the responses.

    The car in question still has the full cage, seats, steering wheel, harnesses, emblems, and electrical disconnect installed. All appear to be original and apparently installed when the kits first came out.

    Car is titled and drives on street. That for me is the attraction. I race in Trans Am TA3 and have a non-streetable race car. I live 4 miles from Lime Rock and like the idea of being able to drive it to Track days and drive it home.

    I just want to understand if it has all of the above as installed in-period, but never raced, is it really a Challenge car (albeit a less desirable and less valuable Challenge car), and make sure I am paying the right price given the above.
     
  4. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3

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    Is there any way to tell the difference between the Challenge springs and standard street springs? Did kit include different shocks?

    Thanks
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    My opinion is pretty much with Ira, except that Ferrari called them Challenge Cars, they may not have raced or received the full kit, but they came from the factory with installed things for Challenge that regular 348's didn't have.

    I think a 348 Challenge car is one of the following...

    1) Factory Challenge car.

    2) Received factory kit and raced Challenge races.

    I don't think the following are Challenge cars...

    1) Received factory kit, but didn't race Challenge. This is simply a 348 with Challenge kit, but not a 348 Challenge.

    2) Modified for race or track, but not a Challenge kit or didn't race Challenge. This is simply a 348 race car.

    I think the most valuable Challenge would be a factory car that did have Challenge race history.
     
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  6. leopard881

    leopard881 Karting

    May 11, 2014
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    Thanks Rob for your clear statement! +1!
     
  7. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3

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    Schatten and Historic F1 like this.
  8. Historic F1

    Historic F1 Rookie

    Nov 6, 2011
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    This is a great thread. How many owners are on here following. I own #95820 TB SS
     
  9. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    Jason,
    This is merely anecdotal, so don't ascribe too much significance to it, but I've owned two 348CH cars, the first (#094285) was a '93 tb SS that was converted to/raced by the team from Wide World, and the second (#098791, which I still own but rarely drive any more) is a '94 "Factory Challenge" tb campaigned by the Lake Forrest team.
    Both raced in the Challenge Series, but were mid-pack cars at best- the advantage there is that neither had been heavily crashed, which is very rare. Both were/are also "as raced" during my ownership, with the current car remaining almost entirely as it last competed in the series, and in remarkably nice condition mechanically and cosmetically. Bottom line- both great cars (and both titled and tagged, hence driven to/from track events), but for some intangible reason my current car is a bit quicker and more "of a piece", if you know what I mean. I'm not at all sure that this is attributable to its bring a "Factory" car, but it is indeed noticeably better- not to mention a cooler color combination (the only grigio metallic/red interior 348 CH, as opposed to the previous car, which was rosso corsa over tan (but with the red OMP race seats, of course). I've also got complete service and ownership records on it from day #1, and partial race history, which is nice.
    I think you'd enjoy a good 348CH regardless of whether or not it competed in the series, but I'd be reluctant to pay top dollar (whatever that is) for one that didn't have the more or less complete package as well as some race history. If the unraced but fully-equipped example is reasonably priced, it could well be a good deal, but I'd be reluctant to call it a "real" Challenge car, FWIW.
    Hope these ruminations are helpful. Let us know what you decide to do.
    Ira
     
  10. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2017
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    Thanks for thoughts Ira. Greatly appreciated. Now that i'm learning more, ive asked the dealer with the car that hasnt been raced to put it on a lift and advise if it has Ch springs and brake ducts, as he wasnt sure when I asked. He sent more pics of interior and in addition to cage, seats, harnesses it has pedals and steering wheel.

    Cosmetically the car is immaculate, and is currently titled and plated, which is why i'm leaning in that direction. I'd be generally driving the car from my house to Lime Rock (all of four miles), for track days.

    Plan on using it quite a bit at the track, as my Trans Am TA3 Corvette racer requires alot more care and feeding at the track and maintenance after a day on the track. And I cant drive it to the track. Load, unload. Load unload. PITA when i'm a few minutes up the road! The 348 would be a simpler car to maintain, and I can do brakes, fluids, and basic maint. myself at home.

    Buy a second set of wheels with slicks, put some real brake pads on along with a proper track set-up in terms of corner-weights, ride heights, and alignment; a more open exhaust and i'll be all set. Probably some paint protection film since the car is in such nice unmolested shape.

    Also would like to be able to take it to car shows, cars and coffee, etc... considering what nice cosmetic condition it's in.

    Hoping to figure out what i'm going to do in the next few days. I'll keep you guys posted.

    Thanks again for the thoughts!
     
  11. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3

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    Oh, fire bottle and electrical disconnect on passenger side of central tunnel installed as well on the un-raced car.
     
  12. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    Jason,
    Your position makes sense to me, assuming the car in question is reasonably priced. I'm sure you'd enjoy it, especially in view of your proximity to LRP. I've driven from Palm Beach to/from PBIR, Sebring and Homestead many times, and although it's a "hair shirt" experience, it's certainly doable- not that I recommend street driving a car with a roll cage, as I think you're just asking for TBI in the event of a helmetless crash.
    A few minor additional comments: (1) If the car has a real Challenge exhaust it is unmuffled and loud already; (2) I believe there were a couple of versions of the brake ducting- some cars had ducting in lieu of the fog-lights, others just the undercar version; and (3) I've had good luck with Porterfield race pads, but of course be sure to use high-temp fluid and flush often (it's very hygroscopic). By the way, as regards wheels you may know that initially 348CHs ran the stock wheels, but after the first year switched to the Speedline magnesium wheels- the latter are not always easy to find, and are pricey.
    Good luck,
    Ira
     
  13. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3

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    Hi Ira,

    Yes, the price will be reflective of the fact that the car hasn't been raced. That seems to be the "third tier" car in terms of value, with first tier being one of the 45 factory "pre-prepared" cars, second tier being cars with a race history that are not one of the 45. Third tier being un-raced cars with kits bought and installed in period. Maybe add another tier for cars that are one of the 45, but never raced.

    In any event, understood and agreed on all points. I've always used Castrol SRF brake fluid in my race cars. What DOT brake fluid do the 348s use? Also, what compound Porterfield pads are you using? Do you run oem rotors, or an aftermarket piece? How long do the rotors typically last?

    The Speedline wheels look cool, but unless I find a screaming deal on a set, i'll probably just find another set of oem 348 wheels since that's how they raced the first two seasons anyway!

    Closed cell roll cage padding will go on the cage, but agreed- never the best idea driving a caged car on the street. I never claimed to be smart, though!

    Thanks!

    Jason
     
  14. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Jason,
    I've had good luck with Porterfield R-4 pads and Motul RBF 600 or 660 fluid. Ran OEM 348/355 rotors on the first 348CH, but the only material deviation from "as raced" spec on the current car is the use of bigger, upgraded (and pricey) Brembo F40 brakes (which have slotted rotors), so it has been a while since I last used OEM rotors.

    Ira
     
  15. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3

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    Great- thanks for the info!
     

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