What price a ratty testarossa? | FerrariChat
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What price a ratty testarossa?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by JohnMH, Aug 22, 2005.

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  1. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,824
    Bologna
    #1 JohnMH, Aug 22, 2005
    I am currently in negotiations with a guy for the purchase of a early TR. Some of you may have seen my thread when I tried to work out what the serial number meant.

    Red, tan, rough interior, non original steering wheel, 4 point race harnesses, a few minor dents, some scratches, rough running engine (right bank of 6 seems not to work), a few oil drips from the back of the engine, maybe a dead alternator, needs a battery, maybe needs some a/c work. All rubber lines and hoses need replacing. With the poorly running engine I have not been able to adequately check the clutch. Sounds like a dog eh?

    My wife does not call me the patron saint of lost mechanical causes for nothing, my thought was to buy it as cheaply as I can and resurrect it myself. Whenever I see a neglected exotic, etc., I have this irresistable urge to buy it and fix it. I have done this a few times with motorcycles, never with a 12 cylinder ferrari, I did make an offer on a dead Countach once, but that is another story.

    I won't bore you with the price (it is in flux), assuming all the above is what is wrong (it is enough!) what would you pay for it, or would you avoid it at any cost?

    I am just wrestling with my my conscience (and a pearl yellow somewhat mouldy 91 Diablo I found calling my name from across the street). There are a few rough exotics floating around here in Dubai (some are stolen, so do your homework), but upon closer examination they seem so bad, the prices might not seem the bargains they first appear to be. Vendors typically do not need the money, so negotiations are tough.

    Anyone know how to check a Diablo VIN number, ZA9DEO7AOMLA12289, it seems to be Gulf spec.

    Maybe buy them both and do a magazine article on "Diablo vs. Testarossa, 15 years later", does the 6 cylinder TR beat a dead Diablo?

    Cheers to all.
     
  2. teterman2004

    teterman2004 Formula Junior

    Jan 15, 2005
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    BriBud
    #2 teterman2004, Aug 22, 2005
    Run away! Run away!! :)
     
  3. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    #3 judge4re, Aug 22, 2005
    Less than $20k if you're nuts enough to tackle it. ME Ferraris are very cheap because most people don't want them. That's an expensive car to bring back from the dead.

    Run away is much cheaper.
     
  4. steve f

    steve f F1 World Champ

    Mar 15, 2004
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    #4 steve f, Aug 22, 2005
    you will end up with more money in that when and if you ever finish it than buying a proper one now with no hassle
     
  5. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,824
    Bologna
    #5 JohnMH, Aug 22, 2005
    Bunch of killjoys....

    If the Diablo was running (well), would it be worth $35k? No car here has a service history, often they come from places where local shade tree mechanics try to service them (with limited success).

    They just look so forlorn, it breaks my heart. When I first moved here I saw a dealership which closed for lunch between 1 and 4 every day. To block their lot entrance and secure their inventory of ancient rolls royces and faded mercedes benzes, they used a battered lipstick pink Diablo VT convertible. No idea if it ran, but one day it was not there anymore. I suspect that they rolled it back and forth by hand as a type of gate.

    Bizarre.
     
  6. Anteriore

    Anteriore Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2004
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    Netherlands
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    Ramon
    #6 Anteriore, Aug 22, 2005
    Run as far away from the TR as you can, really. I am quite sure there will be a few more surprises, aside from the problems you already mentioned. This will be a very deep money pit and in the end you´ll have spent far more on the car than it´s value on the market will be.
     
  7. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,824
    Bologna
    #7 JohnMH, Aug 23, 2005
    You may all be right, but let me pose the hypothectical:

    Assuming I need the big service, belts valves, hoses, etc. at a minimum. I have access to the parts, tools and expertise to help me pull the engine and do the work myself. (I agree taking such a car to a high priced mechanic, or God forbid, the dealer would be financial disaster)

    The basic TR "big service" parts kit, not including valve shims, hoses, fuel lines is about $1000. The fuel lines, rad hoses, etc. all need replacing, so assume it needs another $1000. I am not afraid of doing the work, it just needs patience, organization and all the right tools.

    The we get into the alternator and battery, no idea what they cost, but another $1000 might be spent here. I also would replace all the relays, fuses, plugs, wires, distributor caps, rotors, etc. ($1000?)

    The a/c is the biggie, the fan does not work, it could be a fuse / relay, or just about every part of the system could need replacement, which I would not feel comfortable doing. I also understand the dashboard needs to come out. Not cheap I am certain ($2000?).

    Finally, out of prudence I would replace the bushings, maybe shocks? Another $1500 there?

    Even with incidentals such as a clutch ($3000) and a fuse box ($1500), I am looking at perhaps $12,000 in parts. But it will be a nice running TR at that point, and the $12,000 figure is the worst case scenario, maybe I don't need plug wires? Maybe the a/c is not as bad as I thought?

    If I can get the car for $25k and make it a strong runner for $10-12k (granted the cosmetics would be extra, but it is not that bad and the interior can be saved with lots of elbow grease), would it still be cost prohibitive?

    The thing is, I have looked at "nice" cars, typically I have learned that if they truly were that nice, the would not be for sale, nobody does all the deferred maintenance and then sells a car, they typically get the idea that one day the may sell, then they defer. So should I buy a nice TR for $50k I assume I will still need at a minimum the engine out service.

    My Ferrari mechanic back home in Canada used to point at two daytonas in his shop, one a polished garage queen, the other a car burnt out from the firewall back. He told me the only difference between them was paint, when dealing with 20 year+ old cars, they all need work.

    Is my logic faulty?
     
  8. patpong

    patpong Formula 3

    Jul 6, 2004
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    Patpong Thanavisuth
    #8 patpong, Aug 23, 2005
    You are talking about a fully restoration project. It will be worth it if you fully restore, say a Ferrari 250 Testarossa or a classic Bugatti, no matter how much money you put in the finished car will be worth more than your investment, but not a 87 Testarossa. Might end up even more or end up with a so-so running car. As for the price, you should know how much you are going to invest in restoration plus the cost of the car to end up below market price. Say, $20,000 restoration + $10,000 for car, you end up with $30,000 and that could be $10,000 below market, you come out a winner, otherwise not worth it...
     
  9. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,223
    TN
    #9 308GTS, Aug 23, 2005
    The point is that you came here for advice. You have no clue how much it can cost hence why you keep asking. Second, why argue with many who are long time owners. If you don't want our advice simply don't ask but I don't think you should keep asking until someone finally agrees with you. It obviously isn't a good move so if you have "gotta have syndrome" then buy it and be done with it but I am sure we will see 500 posts in the tech section asking about this problem or complaining about parts prices/cramped quarters to work in.
    Actually, I sold 2 of my Ferraris that both were ready to go. I had done all of the servicing up front and repaired/replaced many items. They literally were ready to go. So, I disagree with that statement. Some people just want to sell their car or move onto a different car or get their money back out of the car.
     
  10. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,824
    Bologna
    #10 JohnMH, Aug 23, 2005
    OK, I won't buy the car. Thanks for the advice. I will shut up now and stop posting.
     
  11. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    Apr 27, 2001
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    #11 Meister, Aug 23, 2005
    If you are willing/able to take the time to do some of these things yourself, find freinds to help you and have the patients for it, you can come out with a reasonable car for a reasonalbe price.

    I've heard many stories of guys who have paid a premium for a car that had "just" been serviced/updated whatever...only to have things redone at further expense.

    Thus my personal thought is if you can do these things (repairs) find the worst car you can (within reason), do the stuff that needs to be done and then you know what has been done and that it was done right.

    TR's are one of the most costly for parts and service right now and probably into the future. But again, if you can be patient, source parts and take the time you can have a nice car.

    If I could find TR for around 20K-25k (like the one you've described)somewhere close to me in the states I'd snatch it up...

    Don't let some of the negative thoughts about putting money into a car get you down.. It's very true (as others have stated) that you can end up putting more money into it than it's worth. But if it's something you like to do and have the time, it can also be fun... it's part of owning a car... working on it.

    Best of luck
     
  12. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
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    #12 Ken, Aug 23, 2005
    Hey, I'm on your side, with a few qualifiers. First, I'm assuming you have the mechanical ability and space to undertake a full restoration.

    This car is a parts car, so you want to pay a parts car price. What is that for a Testarossa? I don't know but my wild guess is $15k. So IF you can pay in that neighborhood, you'll have the basis for a car that can be restored. It will take between 6 months and forever to complete depending on how motivated you are to stay with the project. It's no accident that eBay is full of unfinished project cars.

    Parts are expensive on Testarossas. Paint inparticular is going to run close to 5 figures for a decent if not show quality job. Everything else will depend on how many parts you can find that don't come in a yellow box.

    If and when you're done, you'll have a wonderful car that you can take great pride in. You'll have the confidence to drive it hard like it was intended. Yes, you can drive it like you can fix it, because you can.

    So as long as you have the cash and motivation to complete the project, I don't think you'll take a bath since your labor is yours. This is NOT an investment; it's a hobby. I bet even with paint you'll have $50-60k in it (maybe less if you're lucky and talented) which is close enough to the value to be reasonable.

    Ken
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    #13 Steve Magnusson, Aug 23, 2005
    This question is too broad -- depending too much on the definition of "ratty".

    If I had a needy, high-mileage, needs service, but the paintwork is decent enough, and it was running, TR, I'd put it on eBay at $30K no-reserve (5-lug, 16" wheels) and $25K (single-lug, 415mm wheels).

    At Ken's $15K price, if all the coachwork panels are OK and the drivetrain is intact, I think you'd be leaving money on the table (and the F sharks would frenzy ;))

    JMOs
     
  14. arezzo

    arezzo Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2003
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    #14 arezzo, Aug 23, 2005
    If I were you I'd go to the official Ferrari dealer or the grey market ones that import/export to Japan and look for a clean TR or whatever you're looking for. They have some cool local car magazines (and if in Arabic) they come with phone numbers and pictures of their inventory so that should make it easy. Check these guys out:

    http://www.houseofcarsgroup.com/

    (Disclaimer: I don't know them, am not soliciting, never bought from them, but they have a good reputation in the region)

    or

    http://www.ferrariclubuae.com/

    The cars that you are mentioning are those that have been passed around within a circle of friends and has been through in some cases 15 to 18 owners. They enjoy it for a while and then pass it on.

    I guess its the culture of the place, to everyone their own.
     
  15. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,824
    Bologna
    #15 JohnMH, Aug 23, 2005
    Thanks for the input, I was not going to post anymore on this subject, but a few thoughts occur:

    First, my mechaincal aptitude is pretty good. I have the TR manuals and have watched the engine out service being done on a TR.

    Second, this would not be my first Ferrari, I like the older ones. There are not a lot of older ferraris here in Dubai (thanks for your suggestions regaring the local club and H of C, I have spoken with both and come up with zip except a higher price white TR in need of a full sevice for $10k more and
    a pricey early 348 at HofC - I will check out the magazines though - thanks!).

    Third, if some people do all the work and then sell the car, bless them. Sadly, my experience is that people generally sell the car (Ok, I admit I only have experience with lower end ferraris) when they see how much the next bill will be. That is why I always get a PPI, leakdown, ask to see receipts, etc.

    This car runs on 6, needs some major parts replaced, but I have done some homework checking prices with the sponsors of this site. I am not looking for a concourse car, just a good driver.

    Seems like a TR is only feasable if you can fix a lot of things yourself, my question is only whether anyone out there has fixed a basket case TR themselves, what were their experiences?
     
  16. Prova85

    Prova85 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
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    #16 Prova85, Aug 23, 2005
    Jeff Green aka carguy on Fchat has gone down the road you seek to travel. Ya might want to PM him as he probably hasn't seen this thread. Or you could do a search on his username and read his replies.
     
  17. Fred2

    Fred2 F1 World Champ
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    Jan 2, 2005
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    #17 Fred2, Aug 23, 2005
    Cars like this one CAN be alot of fun if you do not care about originality.
    If the car is only running on six, and the FI is the problem, it may be more economical to put an aftermarket FI unit on it. This would add hp, and save $.
     

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