I know the GV gets all the press and is the more popular plane, but a Global Express (Bombardier) is a better airplane in almost every way. I wonder if people just say GV because thats what they hear about on Entertainment Tonight or Access Hollywood?
I think most aviation enthusiasts know about the Global Express, and know that it's equal or better by most measures.
LIONSFAN, i disagree. the Global Express is inferior in many ways to both a Citation X and a GV. i have worked on, been in and flown in all three. the citationx has its good points , but i will argue about a global express all day. they had many MANY of them as unsold " white tails" for several months and had to sell them way BELOW PRODUCTION COSTS to get anyone to buy or lease one. i am a aircraft mechanic. while most are sitting inside nice and safe. we make sure all goes well , no matter what time of day or what the weather is. i have been approached by the "BOMB fACTORY" as we call them, and i turned them down flat. i have the honor of working on the Gulfstreams of the future, ( " FLIGHT TEST GROUP" ) the new GIV-X is going to be at a great price point and is going to slaughter the market in business jets. experimental reasearch and develpoment advances are going to advance the market in ways most of us in the " star trek" generation could only dream of. if i say any more i will be terminated. watch and see , the future is coming! michael
You may not be allowed to talk about what's coming, but surely you can tell us what makes the Global Express worse than the G-V? I don't know about too many of the specifics, but I have read in several publications that Global Express has better range, operating costs, etc. Is this not the case? Whether they sell or not is somewhat different...marketing often trumps technical superiority. Perhaps Gulfstream offers better leases, moving the G-IV customers up to G-Vs for less than it would cost to switch to Bombardier's Global Express? When you say that they sat around in a hangar for a long time, are you talking about a big percentage of the hulls, or just a few that you saw at you facility? Are you talking about sales worldwide or in the US only? Do you know why they didn't sell, or just that they didn't? I would be interested to find out if you have any info. Thanks! Faisal.
I read this thread and laughed my head off. Didn't any of you guys think about where you're going to travel with the plane? I have a twin engine Beech Baron. I regularly beat the commercial planes to LA and land at airports closer than what I can get with a commercial plane. The larger the plane, the longer the runway. If all of your flights are into major airports, because their closer to your destination, then you are very unusual people. My airport has a 2100 runway. Let see any of you get a Citation X into there, let alone a G4. Obviously longer trips the faster plane makes more sense, but how many of those longer trips make sense? Not many I'd bet. Frankly, a lot of very well to do people that I know (9 figure net worth) have a small plane, and when they need to, they charter. You have to understand what you intend to do with the plane, and then pick the plane. There are a lot of people flying their own jets, but interestingly enough, the insurance industry has a solution: charge more so that its more expensive to fly yourself than to have a professional pilot. An example: Citation Jet, single pilot: insurance about 40k more per year than insurance for two pilots. You can get a pilot for less than 40k a year, so you pay extra for less. Art
range : gobal express 11,130, 19,663 kg of fuel range gv 12,046 km, 18,734 kg of fuel yes FAISAL, i was speaking more in terms of $$$$ based on actual observed operating cost, pirchase price, included service and QUALITY. please understand my point of view as a mechanic, not as a GULFSTREAM employee. i haveto go into the depest darkest part of the aircraft to do servives and inspections. i went to school on my own $$$$ to get my license from the FAA to work on aircraft. to main focus of my post ( whic was not clear i admit) was overall the Express has known quality issues in structure, design and avionics. by " known" i mean to us " wrench turners" some things are easier to fix if the darn engineers would make it right the first time. someone is here.... more later....... michael
I have a very good friend who has a Citation X. These numbers seem pretty in line with what I know from him(including the time I borrowed the plane and paid for fuel, etc.) One thing most people don't really take into consideration with a private jet is that not only do you pay your crew, but most peolle I know pay for their lodging as well. When you are talking about $20MM planes, a couple of hotel rooms at $200 night isn't a ton of money, but with a crew of three and a lot of traveling it add's up pretty damn quick. But then again everything is relative as he always gets his crew rooms where he stays (be it the Four Seasons, the Waldorf, or wherever) as he is the kind of person that treats employees very well. I like the CX quite a bit for the speed, comfort and lower cost compared to a GV. I have been with my friend from NY to London and the plane actually does perform as claimed. The flight was far more enjoyable at ~6.5 Hours then it ever had been on a first class flight. It is an amazing plane for the money. That being said, I was in Bill Cosby's GIV about three years back and it too is an absolutely amazing plane. I have read nothing but good things about the GIV and GV and the appointments in Cosby's were stunning to say the least. Teak everywhere. Best of everything. And hs is a pretty cool man from the 8 or so hours I spent with him. And if there is anyone out there who has lots of cash that can be invested and wants to figure out how to (almost) make plane purchashing pay for itself, my buddy with the CX makes a couple million dollars a year putting deposits on Jets. As it turns out the wait to recieve your plane from the time the order is placed is often 2+ years on the more in demand planes. He will hold his spot in line for the 2 year wait and than sell his spot for a couple hundred thousand over his deposit. He actually more than covers his DOC every year by selling the number 2 and number 3 spots in line to be built with Gulfstream and Citation. As they say, turning $100 into $110 takes hard work. Turning $100MM into $110MM is inevitable.
Hi everybody! I'm no jet owner but rather a bit of a nosey on the subject. And I've seen allot of great airplanes being mentioned here, and the Gulf IV and V which are my personal favourites. But regardless I still have to question those here about an airplane I was unfamiliar with until a few weeks ago, the Embraer Legacy. What do you guys think about it? It's made in Brasil... Dunno if that's a plus or not, and it seems to be the direct oponent to the Bombardier planes... Any thoughts? One other thing on Bombardier, they must be in deep ****, 'cause they're closing down 5 to 7 facilities in Europe this year for shortage of $$$... BTW: Michael great thread on the Gs vs the CX!
thanks...... they have had many , many unsold aircraft. ours are sold BEFORE they are built. 'nuff said........
Art and others make a great point. Sometimes the 'best plane in the world' is a 182 with a STOL kit. And I can honestly say I love just about anything with wings. 60kts in a 150 is awesome, and it just gets better from there. I wouldn't kick any G 550 (esp with EVS and the BAE pod.) out of my hanger, nor would I turn down a Citation X! However, I really want my own 747. Hey, Travolta did it a generation before me (with a 707, I've heard him on the radio.) So BBJ. That, and these little toy airplanes really appeal to the rebel in me. Javelin Jet; how can you say no to 10,000+fpm climb? T-38 Talon: Private parties can own this supersonic (barely, Mach 1.2 max) trainer, no weapons were fitted! anotherguy- You have outstanding friends! Of course, the ultimate is and always will be this guy: I really hope Branson pulls it off.
He should probally be looking at his SECOND private jet... Seriously, if he gets sick on one of those commerical petri dishes. I mean flights. then how much is the buisness out if he's gone for a month? Ok, the buisness case isn't nearly that simple, but the jet will be worth it, and in that instance, I'd say the guy's earned a little freedom. Heck, Apple Computer *GAVE* Steve Jobs a Gulfstream V. I belive Travolta's case was he saw 707s flying above his house as a kid and made quite an impression on him. He said "My God, I want one of those" and eventually bought it. More power to the guy. It's really the thin line that Helicopters operate on that scares me. I've seen the shafts and gearboxes that drive the tailrotor in IR... almost as hot as the jet exhaust... "A helicopter is the only creation of man that, when operating perfectly, well maintained, and flown by profesionals, is TRYING to shake itself to pieces. I still wouldn't mind one, but I don't know that I'd spend a lot of time in them.
A good friend of mine's brother, who is licensed in almost everything from a 182 to a 747, is a great helicopter pilot (does a little film work every now and then). He told me once a helicopter "is a million little parts all working together to try and kill you." That being said, I have loved helicopter since I was a little kid, and flight training starts soon...
B747-400 for me or if cash was a bit tight I would settle for an SP,I have just been personally involved in a B747-SP total VVIP refit to a rumoured cost of $120 million and I can tell you it was beautiful. Dave Mc
Check out this month's issue of Architectural Digest. It has a big spread on John Travolta's Florida home with the runway and the two jets. They don't show the insides, but it is pretty cool to see a Gulfstream and a 707 parked at a house.
Count me in for a Baron 58 - hey, I work for a living. If I had scads of cash, but still needed it to be somewhat reasonable, a King Air 200 - which is probably the ultimate owner-flown personal airplane. (Insurance is way to high on jets unless you're a pro-pilot - not that a King Air is reasonable....) Had a Mooney for five years and they are great until you add two kids to your collection. Be careful with those 737's. One of my airline friends told me that they routinely have geese flying up the tailpipes during cruise... ;-)
Citation X because it is the fastest non-military aircraft currently flying. For shorter trips, I would use a CitationJet.
Hef's Black Bunny. More people joined the Mile High club on this aircraft than any other in history LOL
I saw an early 90's ex-airline Boeing 747-400 being sold for just under USD $80 million on a website somewhere. Not bad! Just refit it and away you go!
care to guess what the engine overhaul costs on that Baby ? LOL More than a Testarossa rebuild I guess Ha ha
Yeah, those are pretty cool. Unfortunately they are being decommissioned and bought back by Beech, so no more Starships out there... On the other hand, I prefer the more "economical" airplanes. Currently we built, own, and fly a Lancair IV-P, and we can beat most commercial airlines, unless you are flying across the country, because we have to stop. However, that will change when we take delivery on our new 6-place Epic this year (www.epicaircraft.com). I just can't see the justification of a jet when you have aircraft that have this kind of performance for 1/20 (or less) the cost... Then there's the operating costs. The Lancair burns 16 GPH while traveling 260 ktas at 25,000 feet. Now your cost per hour of operation drops WAAAAY down, and we can still get from our home in Washington to LA in 3 hours. The Epic will do the same trip in just over 2 hours at 350 ktas at 45 GPH. Oh well, maybe I'm biased, but it's tough for me to justify these biz jets.
Several choices. I would like to own a citation X, but i wouldnt want to spend the 9 million so i would rather own an L-39 (or some other jet trainer, maybe a 38, but that would probably require advanced flight plan filing), a P-51 (or maybe a t-6 or corsair) and an older lear for the same amount of money.
