What the heck is going on with this place | Page 3 | FerrariChat
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What the heck is going on with this place

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by PSk, Sep 30, 2015.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #51 rob lay, Oct 9, 2015
    Van Gogh's get restored, replicated, and forged all the time, you never hear taking a lesser Van Gogh and redoing to make "better". :D
     
  2. ScuderiaRossa

    ScuderiaRossa Formula 3
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    #52 ScuderiaRossa, Oct 9, 2015
    Sure, forgeries and replicas are made all the time, but they're still copies of the original, and will never match the original. "Restoration" in the art world usually means careful cleaning and repair, and through intensive research, the rectification of any later modifications with the ultimate goal of keeping the artist's work as true as possible. IMO, that's what makes it better...
     
  3. kevfla

    kevfla Formula 3

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    gone 4 good
    #53 kevfla, Oct 9, 2015
    Armchair quarterback with a lot of time on his hands. Guess "Fantasy Football" soccer style isnt available in NZ to divert idle time from FChat.
     
  4. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
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    #54 Bryanp, Oct 9, 2015
    and PSK happens to be exactly right re: item 1 despite the snide comebacks to his post.

    Bottom line; Real Vintage Ferrari enthusiasts don't cut up real Vintage Ferraris to make fakes. And if "it's just a car/metal" to you, then why do you bother to participate in the primary vintage Ferrari forum on the internet? These cars are either special to you, or they're not.

    And if your'e going to drive a fake that contains the remains of a butchered vintage Ferrari, for F sake, just say what it is. The constant hedging/lies of omission is tiring. We smoked out a fake that was nearly on the lawn at a major show just last month . . . .
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #55 rob lay, Oct 9, 2015
    perfectly said!
     
  6. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
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    #56 PAUL500, Oct 9, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
    People are comparing apples with oranges when using a unique Van Gogh etc as an example.

    No one is chopping up unique Ferraris to then make replica's they are simply using old, tired, mass produced examples that for years no one actually wanted!

    Now that such cars are becoming more appreciated their values increase making them less at risk of the grinder anyway. Find one example where a nice, good condition driver GTE has become a donor, citing the 3 cars in NZ is daft as those cars were for sale on the open market, if they had been any good then they would have been snapped up and restored instead before they became some stunning replicas whose back story is well known and have never claimed to be originals. As an aside the bodies from those cars will allow others to be saved for posterity.

    How many are actually being lost to the replica builders anyway year on year? there cannot be that many people commissioning them, all this fuss is probably just a storm in a tea cup.
     
  7. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #57 PSk, Oct 9, 2015
    Paul,

    You are acting blind. There are many good GTE's and America's that have been lost to this replica trade. These cars ARE wanted but the replica industry is prepared to pay more than others can afford because they will make a profit. Does that include you?

    And again surely this online car club that is FerrariChat should be about preserving Ferraris, including modified ones. Replication is not a case of modifying cars, it is destroying cars ... nobody is complaining about putting say flairs on a GTE, or adding 3 extra carbs, etc., for example.
    Pete
     
  8. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #58 miurasv, Oct 9, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
    As my post above conclusively proves your above point b., I think it best if you put the sledge hammer away and that you were the one to shut up.
     
  9. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

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    #59 JazzyO, Oct 9, 2015
    +250.


    Onno
     
  10. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    #60 Jeff Kennedy, Oct 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2015
    Steve,

    You fight for a truth that, unfortunately, the fan boys do not appreciate. The vast majority of the naysayers do not understand the background maneuvers that have been deliberately perpetrated while claiming a different public stance.

    Jeff
     
  11. rocnred

    rocnred Rookie

    Aug 12, 2014
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    San Diego, CA
    #61 rocnred, Oct 9, 2015
    How weird is that? I have the exact same 288Frossa40. I am really thinking of parting it out tho'. Make some real righteous bucks.

    P.S. I hate that Hamilton guy. He is a whiner. When he goes to Ferrari, in the future, it will be hard for me to want him to win. And he will, because everybody wants to drive for Ferrari. Hell, I do and I would not change it for the world. There is nothing like the feeling I get when I drive my Ferrari. Oh wait I forgot...he owns a LaFerarri. Maybe that is the closest he will ever get to drive one. Sure beats driving the Mercedes C class down to the market.
     
  12. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #62 El Wayne, Oct 9, 2015
    The 0846 stuff is in a single thread, so I don't see how it could possibly be dropping the quality of an "entire site", filled with literally thousands of threads. Now Pete, maybe it ruins the site for you because you just can't resist the temptation to open the thread every time there's a new post. :D

    :)

    NOT IN HERE! The other thread is the "one and only" 0846 debate thread for a reason. Other users have received very lengthy bans for doing what you've just done!
     
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #63 PSk, Oct 9, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
    I could accept this statement back in the 1980's but not now 35 years later when ALL Pininfarina Coupes, GTEs, Americas are now historic and important Ferraris.
    2709GT for one, but give me a minute or 2.
    Here is a list of destroyed GTE's from Barchetta.cc. I assume some more have been destroyed since of these low volume hand made cars:

    Chassis Description
    1903GT Engine in SWB 2347GT
    2201GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    2205GT Rebodied as TR replica
    2225GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    2235GT Rebodied by Fantuzzi body like 250P (basket handle). 65' period rebody due to accident
    2263GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    2271GT Engine installed in 1777GT (250 GT Nembo Spider)
    2279GT Rebodied as TR replica
    2349GT Rebodied as TR replica
    2367GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    2423GT Rebodied as TR replica
    2451GT Drive train lost
    2459GT Engine installed in 1689GT
    2493GT Rebodied with Drogo bodywork from 0716TR, 1980
    2495GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    2517GT Rebodied California style
    2523GT Rebodied as TR replica
    2547GT Engine installed in 4183GT (250 GTE)
    2573GT Rebodied as California Spyder Replica
    2579GT Rebodied as TR replica
    2609GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    2641GT Rebodied as TR replica
    2645GT Rebodied as TR replica
    2673GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    2745GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    2779GT Rebodied as TR replica
    2803GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    2849GT Engine installed in 1485GT
    2851GT Engine installed in 4835GT
    2883GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    2887GT Rebodied as California Spyder Replica
    2897GT 275 GTB/4 N.A.R.T. Spyder replica
    2901GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    2997GT Engine installed in 2021GT
    3001GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3041GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    3061GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3069GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    3103GT Rebodied as 64 GTO replica
    3181GT Rebodied as TR replica
    3213GT Rebodied as Drogo Replica
    3225GT Engine installed in 2713GT
    3237GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    3241GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3263GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3267GT Rebodied as 250 Speciale one-of-a-kind. At least not a replica
    3273GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    3297GT Parted out
    3321GT Rebodied as 250 LWB cal Spyder
    3343GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3363GT No drive train
    3405GT Rebodied as GTO style replica. Period rebody?
    3415GT Base for replica
    3437GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    3483GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3511GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3593GT Parted out
    3611GT Rebodied with SWB Berlinetta/Drogo body from 2735GT
    3635GT Rebodied as SWB California Spyder
    3659GT Engine installed in 3749GT
    3661GT Rebodied as TR replica
    3671GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3675GT Rebodied as TR replica
    3731GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3737GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    3781GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3839GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3873GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3881GT Rebodied as Drogo Replica
    3883GT Rebodied as TR replica
    3885GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3887GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    3919GT Rebodied as GTO Spider replica
    3981GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4087GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    4127GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4169GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4243GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    4257GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4275GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4281GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    4285GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4351GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4477GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4487GT Rebodied as SWB California Spyder
    4533GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4547GT Engine installed in 2379GT
    4553GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    4565GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    4599GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4643GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    4669GT Rebodied as SWB Replica
    4685GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4739GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4749GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    4761GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4769GT Rebodied as Drogo Replica
    4773GT Rebodied as Nembo Spider Replica
    4819GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    4861GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    4873GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4921GT Rebodied as TR replica
    4933GT Rebodied as SWB California Spyder

    Pete
     
  14. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #64 PSk, Oct 9, 2015
    Not anymore. I don't see any new information. Steve has previously stated his version of the chassis modification of P3 or P4.

    Anyway I've decided the only course of action is to ignore that thread ... how having threads that need to be ignored is healthy for FerrariChat I don't get??
    Pete
     
  15. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
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    #65 PAUL500, Oct 9, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
    It would be interesting to know the dates when the above conversions actually happened? if that's spread over the last 30 years or so then its only a couple of cars a year, hardly a tragedy. How many 250 GTEs were produced in total and how many of the above were probably basket cases destined for the scrapper regardless, most I would imagine.

    They are still a Ferrari under the skin and got to live on in a pretty frock instead :)
     
  16. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #66 El Wayne, Oct 9, 2015
    The thread doesn't need to be ignored by 99.99% of the users here; it needs to be ignore by you because you find it annoying and/or uninteresting. Likewise, unless there are reported posts, I ignore a great majority of the threads on this site. I almost never wonder into P&R, B&I, F1, Tracking/Driver Ed, Other Racing, 13 of the 15 model-specific forums, 25 of the 26 regional forums, 8 of the 9 lifestyle forums, 5 or 6 of the "other cars" forums, OT or any of the sponsor forums (sorry, guys). Even within the Vintage forum, I almost never read the replica sub-forum and even tend to ignore some regular Vintage threads (the 0384 thread, for example).

    You don't have to be interested in all of the debates going on throughout F-Chat at any given moment - and there are plenty of them, not just the one over 0846. That particular debate is not even close to bringing down the entire site - and neither are the hundreds of others. The fact is that you don't care to hear it, but can't resist checking in on it for some reason. That would be like me complaining about the "Trump!!!!" thread in P&R. I've never clicked on it, but I can only imagine that it's filled with crap that doesn't interest me and commentary that I would probably find moronic, immature, boring, etc. I don't complain about it bringing down the entire site, though. I just click on threads that interest me instead.
     
  17. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #67 El Wayne, Oct 9, 2015
    And by the way, even though people like you and I may have little interest in keeping up with the 0846 debate, there are obviously a great number of people on this site who are interested in it. So far, the thread contains 8,710 posts and has attracted 207,696 views. I haven't checked, but I'm fairly certain that it's not just Steve and Jim running up those stats. :)
     
  18. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #68 El Wayne, Oct 9, 2015
    Lol! Bryan, was this comment made in reference to Pete's item #1 or #3? :)
     
  19. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #69 moretti, Oct 9, 2015
    Excellent, the GTE is downright ugly and now the chassis gets a better looking body :p

    Win all round I'd say :D
     
  20. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #70 PSk, Oct 11, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
    Agree up to the year 2000 at the latest but from then on they are too historic to be used as mere parts IMO.
    955, but your basket case assumption is incorrect, just profit to be made ... here is but one example (3905GT, which interestingly not in my GTE list): http://tomyang.net/blog/2001/10/25/the-story-behind-the-forlorned-ferrari/
    No I do not agree ... but obviously I am wrong as they are legally registered as a Ferrari still but the chassis (which is the car) is NOT to the specifications that it left the factory as.
    Pete
     
  21. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #71 PSk, Oct 11, 2015
    Here is the Barchetta.cc list of PF Coupes (only 359 made) lost:

    Chassis Description
    0949GT Engine installed in 0973GT TDF 2008 - engine installed in 0849GT PF SII Cabriolet
    0951GT Parted out. Engine installed in 0695GT
    0957GT Engine installed in 0825GT
    0959GT Parted out.
    0977GT Period rebody by Drogo
    0989GT Parted out. Engine installed in TR replica 1393GT
    0995GT Parted out. Spare engine for 1385GT
    1019GT Period rebody.
    1021GT Parted out.
    1023GT Engine installed in 0917GT
    1041GT Parted out.
    1047GT Parted out.
    1067GT Rebodied as TR replica
    1081GT Rebodied as TR replica
    1087GT Rebodied with Fantuzzi shell
    1091GT Parted out. Engine installed in 0198GT
    1119GT Parted out.
    1185GT Rebodied as a TdF replica in 1991
    1209GT Parted out.
    1257GT Rebodied as Drogo replica
    1267GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    1273GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    1281GT Rebodied as TR replica
    1303GT Rebodied as a TdF replica
    1313GT Parted out.
    1319GT Engine missing
    1325GT Engine missing
    1345GT Rebodied as SWB replica
    1393GT Rebodied as TR replica
    1395GT Rebodied as TR replica
    1397GT Engine installed in 0466M
    1437GT Engine installed in 0672MDTR
    1443GT Rebodied as GTO Spider replica
    1445GT Rebodied as LWB California Spider replica
    1549GT Engine installed in 1657GT
    1555GT Engine installed in 0897GT
    1585GT Engine installed in 0405GT
    1589GT Rebodied as TR replica
    1653GT Engine in SWB replica
    1657GT Rebodied as a TdF replica?
    1675GT Original engine stolen
    1709GT Rebodied as GTO replica
    1713GT Written off in 1962
    1717GT Rebodied in 1965 by Drogo. Period rebody
    1729GT Engine installed in 0114A
    1733GT Engine installed in 2733GT
    1765GT Original engine stolen
    1767GT Engine installed in 1719GT
    1777GT Rebodied by Nembo in 1965. Period rebody
    1845GT Engine installed in 0831GT
    1901GT Engine installed in 0197EL
    1921GT Parted out.
    1929GT Separated of engine and gearbox
    1933GT Separated of engine
    2065GT Rebodied in 1960's by Drogo. Period rebody

    Pete
     
  22. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #72 PSk, Oct 11, 2015
    Just as well John, that you are not a car then ;) ... :D
    Pete
     
  23. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
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    #73 PAUL500, Oct 11, 2015
    Funny how we all see things in different perspectives, with regards 3905, that photo is over 15 years old!

    What I see there is a great project to use as a rebody for a damaged recent model ferrari, you could end up with classic styling and bang up to date modern underpinnings, what a sleeper that could make.

    However can you find a car like that available here and now, available to buy today though for sensible money? I have not seen such suitable project cars in the market for a long time.
     
  24. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #74 PSk, Oct 11, 2015
    While not a GTE, this car does not stand a chance: Ferrari Other | eBay

    Engine will likely be used in a P4 replica ...
    Pete
     
  25. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
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    #75 PV Dirk, Oct 11, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
    I only purchased a Ferrari so when I poke at Ferrari owners people have to think twice before I'm dismissed ;)

    And is this the right place to ask, if a GTE is rebodied into something very market valuable but then after 10 years rebodied back to a GTE, is it a GTE or something else? Now I'm confused. Is it forever a bastard or can it be fixed? Maybe I should post this in the right section?
     
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