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What the Hell has happened to F1 ??

Discussion in 'F1' started by FLATOUTRACING, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
    Full Name:
    Jon K.
    First off I don't want anyone here to think I am in the camp that advocates changing all the rules to make things equal so that TV ratings go up, or that F1 provides great entertainment.

    I for one, think the points system, the new qualifying orders, the 1 engine rule and all the other nonsense should have been saved for IRL or NASCAR. F1 has never been about entertainment (or so I thought until two years ago).

    It has always been about "cost-no-object" technology. About building F16 fighter jets that run on race tracks.

    That being said, if someone else, anyone else, doesn't soon figure out how to challenge Ferrari, the lure of F1 (since 1982) will be gone for me.

    In no way do I fault Ferrari for this and in now way do I want "euqalization rules" but the excitement of F1 is wanning for me.

    I know there are many folks on this board who love all this winning and want Ferrari to win every race, win the next three titles and so on an so on but............

    .............F1 is no longer about racing because there literally is NO RACING. And I am not talking about or griping of no passing. I am talking about the pit strategies and battles for position usually fought by the pit crews. Even that has been absent.

    I suffered through nealry 20 years of watching Ferrari get it's ass handed to them and was relived and excited that they finally won with MS.

    First and foremost I am a race fan and I miss the racing in F1. Even when McLaren dominated in the 80's there were other teams and drivers that won races, titles, and such.

    I want Ferrari and MS to win the title this year, even next year, but I want to see some racing either on the track or in the pits. I want the race to be exciting in the last 20 laps, I want qualifying to actually mean something, I want to BE EXCITED AGAIN WATCHING F1.

    It took me three attempts to finish watching last weeks German GP on tape. I kept dozing off.

    I used to watch each race on Speed, live at 8:00 am. I would have butterflies in my stomach, hoping Ferrari could pull it off. I would jump up and down and yell at Hakkinen when his engine blew up (02 US GP).

    Cheering like a maniac when they showed pictures of Ron Dennis hanging his head in disappointment at another Ferrari win.

    I watched qualifying from the edge of my seat and would jump up an down like a madman screaming with joy when MS would pull out a stunner of a lap to beat Hakkinen, Montoya, or Kimi by a hundreth of a second.

    Now I don't even watch qualifying. If, like last week, Ferrari is 6th, 7th or even further back you just know they are one a one stop less strategy than everyone else. You know they will stop one less time and you know that when the other teams are fiddling in the pits MS will flip on the afterburners and lay down some awesome laps.

    Now I don't even watch the race until it's re-aired on Speed in the evening.

    I want Ferrari to win but I also want to be able to stay awake half way though the race and be on the edge of my seat hoping a McLaren blows up, A Williams over revs, or ......................

    Maybe we can make it exciting again by:

    1) Making Ferrari run on intermediate rain tires in the dry
    2) Making Ferrari start the race with their car still in the trailer
    3) Letting me race the Ferrari once in a while.
    4) Use Minardi engines until the half way point of the season
    5) Hire someone like Takuma to drive so we miss half the races with engine blow ups
    6) Let Ross Brawn and Jean Todt drive, while MS and RB monitor the pit boards
    7) Make RB and MS race 360 Stradale's
    8) Take the wings off the cars

    Anything ?

    Am I the only Ferrari fan who is bored by all this ???

    Sorry to vent, but my wife asked what I wanted for father's day. My answer was to have an empty/quiet house, with nothing but some beers, the lazyboy and my big screen to watch the US GP.

    I fell asleep at the mid way point.

    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod (who remembers screaming at the TV screen when Ferrari won a race)
    www.flatoutracing.net
     
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  3. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    May 14, 2004
    2,892
    I thought it was one hell of a race. I was awake through the entire race and it was a great fathers day for me. After the race I have spent hours talking to friends and family about the race.

    Yes I am a life long Ferrari fan and enthusiast. I remember all those years that Ferrari could not win anything and now its simply amazing what Rubens and Michael have achieved.

    I hate all the rule changes. I hate the fact that after winning 8 races Michael is only 18 points ahead in the championship. The points system is ridiculous and it needs to be switched back to the old system.

    One has to remember that in every era there is one great team and driver. Ferrari, Rubens and Michael is the best F1 team ever created. Michael is the best driver in the history of F1. So to change the rules because of a great driver is nonsense. The rule changes are only ruining the sport. I am disgusted at critics that want more rule changes.

    Let us all remember that the rules by which a sport or game are played by are supposed to be equal to all. As long as they are equal to all it is fair. The fact that Ferrari and Michael are still winning even though clearly the rules have been changed on several occassions is a testament to Scuderia Ferrari and Michael's greatness. Shame on those critics that complain there is no excitement in F1 and yet cannot see that they are witnessing the greatest driver in f1 of all time drive his legacy to victory and into the history books.

    F1 has never been so exciting as it is right now. You are watching two great racing driver drive cars built by the greatest F1 racing team of all time. They are winning despite all those unfair rules meant to curb their performance. A great man once said "Adversity does not build character, it reveals it". Ferrari, Michael and Rubens are facing all the adversity from critics that say F1 is not exciting and all those who are fighting against them. This adversity is revealing to the world a great team's character.

    PS: Who still screams at the TV screen when Ferrari wins? ... I know I do!
     
  4. aventino

    aventino Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2003
    768
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    David L
    It seems to me to be a lot like Ducati in WSB. The promoters see a large number of people who would cheer on Ferrari over everyone else but who wouldn't be F1 supporters on any other day. I don't for a minute think it has been all a level playing field and I think the percieved extra fans the promotors have bought in by having Ferrari win so often is to the detrement of the sport in general. As Patrick Head mentioned at a Monaco press conference "go back over the last four years and look at how many times rule violations against Ferrari have been upheld in comparison to everyone else"

    Plus there is no rivalry between MS and Rubens unlike the good old days at Mclaren or Williams. Rubens knows he is number two and the competitive nature of the sport goes out the window for the good of Micheal.
     
  5. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    That race was a staged TV program engineered for the great MS to win yet another ... boring!

    The thing that really got my blood boiling was the very poor handling of the RS accident. That was as bad as the Senna accident and it took far too long for the marshalls, medical people to get to him. The race should have been red flagged ...

    Thank God he went in backwards.

    Sato was great and so was JPM!!!!, yes I did say JPM.

    Pete
     
  6. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    May 14, 2004
    2,892
    Yes JPM was the greatest idiot on the track today. He is an f1 driver that does not know the rules. I was watching the race with a 15 year old boy that yelled "he cannot do that, he will disqualified, he did not get into the T-car in time" Shame on Montoya for not knowing the rules of F1. Shame on those that think he actually deserves to be in F1.
     
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  8. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,003
    Bay Shore, NY
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    Andy
    Indianapolis is a second class track if it is anything at all. It is archaeic in design and safety and is run poorly. There is no excuse for a safety team not getting on the scene within 20 seconds of the incident. For sure, the CART organization had a safety crew that would have been there lightening fast and had RS on his way to the medical center.

    It was atrocious to see the pace car and field of racers PASS THE AMBULANCE on the back section of the track. There was no reason why they should have to pass the Ambulance - there was an injured driver in there and no amount of overheated F1 cars would justify relegating the ambulance to a second priority over the race field IMHO.

    This race was a low point for Formula One. Bernie and Tony George had better get their act together.

    Andy
     
  9. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 3, 2001
    11,237
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    Randy
    only two things made today's race exciting for me:

    1) Sato/Honda on the podium.
    2) Mindari finally gets a point.
     
  10. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,003
    Bay Shore, NY
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    Andy
    Rules are rules and if JPM did something wrong he should be penalized. In this case, he was. But there were many more "rules" broken today including those that allow MS to be declared winner. He is one lap down on the field in my opinion and so is Rubens. The same people who penalized JPM let MS get away with breaking the rules. I would say F1 as we saw it today is not worthy of JPM.

    Andy
     
  11. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    May 14, 2004
    2,892
    Well said, I agree that the Indianapolis ciruit is the worst circuit in F1 today. Under no circumstances should an ambulance with an injured driver have lower priority than the race cars. I would love to see the race at the oval scrapped. I think F1 in America should be moved to a dedicated circuit in San Francisco or a street circuit in Manhattan NYC.

    This race saw Micahel and Rubens, two great drivers, battle under adverse circumstances to come up on top.
     
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  13. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,003
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    Andy
     
  14. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    I have to agree. JPM did exactly what any REAL racing driver would do, run back to the spare and then race his guts out.

    Ferrari cheated and yet nothing happened ... the FIA decided to pick on a racing driver trying to race ... pathetic. EDIT: I might be wrong here ... will be reviewing the tape again tonight!

    Pete
     
  15. fivebob

    fivebob Karting

    Jan 31, 2004
    223
    Tauranga,New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Callum
    Yes F1 these days is boring, been going that way ever since aerodynamics started to play a part, with only minor periods of relief at the introduction of new technologies and the unreliability problems they caused like the turbos & ground effect. These days I rarely watch past the first series of pitstops, results are pretty much decided by then, apart from any breakdowns, which are extremely rare for the front runners, and don't add much to the entertainment value anyway.

    For those that don't think rule changes are necessary, then you should read the descriptions of cornering in Lauda's book "The Turbo Era", scary stuff. The G forces were dangerous then and are just as dangerous now. The cars need to be slowed down for the sake of the drivers if nothing else. Either that or the drivers will have to start wearing G-Suits. If these changes make it a better entertainment spectacle then that's a bonus, but not one I would expect.
     
  16. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,179
    What a disgrace, the time it took for the safety crew to reach Ralf, and to a lesser extent, letting JPM pound around for so many laps before ending his day. Can't believe I sat and watched a Williams driver, his head apparently slumped against the side of the cockpit, not moving, reminded me of Imola '94. At least Derek Daly had the guts, albeit cautiously, to criticise the handling of Ralf's incident. Shame on the organizers. Disgust and anger.
     
  17. Tom Larkins

    Tom Larkins Formula Junior


    Ditto, I though NASCAR took over operations and saftey. What a damn joke, I cannot remember in recent time when I saw a driver sitting in a car for that amount of time w/o attention. The TV annoucer said the JPMs backup car didn't have a specific FIA sticker in the cockpit. I assume its was a tech inspection thing, however it was an oversight by the crew no putting it on. If so, what a joke!
     
  18. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I agree that the handling of Ralf was disgraceful. The potential consequences of that long of a delay... thank God it didn't happen.

    But as for the comments on Indy... I've never been a big fan of the Indy race circuit, but in watching the race today I noticed that the layout is actually well-suited to today's F1 cars... there was a lot more opportunities for passing... and there was a lot of clean run-off for mishaps.

    But most importantly, the TV coverage provided from all the well-placed cameras there was awesome! It brought home the raw speed and power, how quick the cars are, and how aggressive the drivers were being early in the race. This race was by far the most entertaining (ignoring the Ralf downer) of the season from a "experiencing F1 racing" standpoint.

    I think the US Grand Prix should stay at Indy... but I think they should add a "North American Grand Prix" at Road America (or Road Atlanta) and a Mexico Gran Prix at a southern California track (until, if ever, Mexico has a suitable option). With 4 races like today's at "normal" times of day spread across the country, the US market would get far more interested IMO.
     
  19. BubblesQuah

    BubblesQuah F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    11,463
    Charlotte
    Road Atlanta would be awesome. I wonder if they could keep the cars from becoming airborne going under the bridge and down the hill into turn 12... :)
     
  20. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    45,880
    @ the wheel
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    Andreas
    I have been watching F1 races since the seventies but couldn't make heads or tails out of yesterday's race. I was simply confused who is where and how the hell did they get there.

    That safety car nonsense is annoying as hell. All of a sudden Rubens is sixth from 2nd before the car went out. Just to name one example.

    As far as the boring part of dominance goes: Reversed grid, simple as that.
     
  21. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,732
    Nova Scotia Canada
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    Neil
    So when Ferrari wins it's boring? Give it up. What if the Ferraris dropped out on the last lap with another team winning? Then would it be great fun? This race was the most exciting of the year, if you want more, then watch nextel, much more passing, much more crashing. You are clearly not a fan, so why waste your time? And don't tell me you're a fan. Bash winning teams, state that the rules are in Ferraris favor. Ignore records. Complain about multiple things after every race. The stress must be killing you.
     
  22. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,732
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    Neil
    So jm was black flagged for cheating. Ferraris won. Yet you call Ferraris cheaters and give the thumbs up to jm? Bash-o-matic cycle again?
    And as for "yet again" when did they cheat this year? Or are you talking about Juan and williams who have been kicked out of two races in a row?

    "FIA decided to pick on a racing driver trying to race" Decided? He was cheating so they booted him. AS for trying to race? He was cheating. Selective and wrong.
     
  23. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,732
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    Neil
    Have you ever watched a Nextel race? It's fun to bash them all day, but their saftey teams are in top form.
     
  24. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,732
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    Neil
    Sandbagging. Simple as that.
     
  25. Tom Larkins

    Tom Larkins Formula Junior

    Yes I've been watching for sometime and attended as few too. Saftey since the HANS implimentation and inside the car and it is getting better yes, but as far quickness and getting to the scene its not fast enough. I'll site Kenseth a few weeks ago when he sat in his smoking car for several minutes and no one ever attended to him at all. He blasted NASCAR for it on live TV, Saturdays Busch race, a guy had to leap out of his car through flames and smoke falling to the ground while his car was still on fire. As stated before, the OWS SimpleGreen crews are the best. Those guys are rolling before the cars stop.
     
  26. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
    13,337
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    Jack
    Back to what Jon was saying, I couldn't agree more. It seems as if the priority for any new track is its amenities, not its actual racing layout. But I would also like to see them do away with refuelling. Winning and losing should happen on the track, and rules which artificially manipulate this (such as having to start with the fuel you qualify with) don't do the sport any good.
     
  27. GreaseMonkey

    GreaseMonkey Rookie

    May 31, 2004
    36
    The strongest and better organized team in the Formula 1 history, 1 driver like the greatest drivers in history (Senna, Prost, Fangio, Nuvolari), 1 driver that perfectly motivated could winn the championship with not much troubles, a car that runs like a German tank, or if you prefer a Swiss watch, a bunch of teams that have no clue where to go or what to do, a bunch of drivers that do not have the natural talent to stand a champion with the stature of MS. (The only ecception, with a proper car could be Kimi, keep an eye on that guy you'll see him up there soon).

    These, I think, are the ingredients that make Ferrari, practically, unbeatable.

    Now you tell me. What was the purpose of Montoya running like a maniac to get the T car he SHOULD know (or at least the team director SHOULD know) that the move wasn't in compliance with the new rules.

    Now tell me how the race director waited 3/4 of the race before exposing the black flag.

    And tell me, also, more important than anything else, why they waited 6 minutes before giving him any kind of help, that stretch of time, in such situations, can be easily mean life or death. I wouldn't guess that the IMS would show such a poor and dangerous capabilities.

    If you add to what said above, that Ecclestone only worry is to make more money and more money and more money. That Mosley is the spokeperson of the English media (that are furious and tired of biting the red dust for almost five years and God knows how long they will have to do that) you might will understand where the Formula 1 is going.

    Will talk again after July 2nd.

    Relax and enjoy the races.
     

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