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What to look for when buying a 512TR?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Schubert Racing, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. Schubert Racing

    Aug 18, 2020
    23
    Full Name:
    MSC
    Im in love with this car and have found a great car. But the question arised and coming from very reliable P cars I wonder what should I check for in this car, in regards of wear, possible failure and common problems?
     
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  3. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    94s are the best year
     
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  4. Zeff

    Zeff Formula Junior

    Oct 8, 2018
    591
    Cupertino, Ca
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    Check to make sure everything electronically works. Look at all the normal stuff, does it have squeaky brakes? Check the clutch? What is the extent of the maintenance records? When was the last major and or service? If you have a seller that took good care of the car you probably won’t have too much to worry about. You should be able to determine that when you interview him. How many owners? You’ll then need to get a Ferrari mechanic to go through the car to tell you what it may or may not need. They are good cars if cared for properly.
     
  5. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,929
    Do a search under ppi. Much information already avail.
     

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  6. Schubert Racing

    Aug 18, 2020
    23
    Full Name:
    MSC
    Its a 1992 With 14k miles. Is there any “must do” or highly specialized maintenance work to be performed to this car? I will be seeing it today for the second time and will come back with more information.
     
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  8. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 Veteran
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    Please read as much as you can the forum, threads on differential, fuse box etc will help you know what to look for about the car you want to buy, invest the time now so that you don’t regret it later.
    Miles are nice but service records and last major with a detailed list of what was done by a good shop are important


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. Schubert Racing

    Aug 18, 2020
    23
    Full Name:
    MSC
    Went to see it a second time and test drove it again. Car has no lights on the dash, all gauges appear to read properly.

    The car started immediately, feels very smooth at idle and revs, the exhaust smell is hard and a little bit like fuel. The car is running a straight exhaust.

    When running it feels a bit “rich”, not that smooth but is not missfiring. Maybe something could be bothering, injectors, fpr, plugs, or something else....


    I also found a small oil leak that runs from the valve cover next to the cam gears and has that part “wet” and some oil on the chassis. Don’t know what could’ve be.
     
  10. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    Ross
    pls describe the gear shift feel
     
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  12. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,929
    You need a ppi and sniff test.

    No cats is a big red flag!
     
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  13. IslandBoy

    IslandBoy Formula Junior

    May 26, 2005
    363
    South Florida
    Full Name:
    Richard H
    I have had 5 of these since 1992. A well maintained car is an amazing ownership experience!
    A poorly maintained car is your worst nightmare.
    A PPI, along with the service records, books, tools, and car cover are the best way to start your experience.
    Aside from deferred maintenance, the main weak points are the fuse box, and the diff.
    Good Luck with your search !!
     
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  14. IslandBoy

    IslandBoy Formula Junior

    May 26, 2005
    363
    South Florida
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    Richard H
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  15. Schubert Racing

    Aug 18, 2020
    23
    Full Name:
    MSC
    Why is no cats a big red flag? It looks like a racing exhaust was fitted.
     
  16. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,929
    Cats burn when fuel mix is way off... or when cam timing is way off.

    cheap a$$ owners eliminate the cats to $ave money rather than fix fuel or timing problems.
     
  17. EZORED

    EZORED Formula Junior
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    Nov 24, 2007
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    Dennis
    Beg to differ. Take off cats tune accordingly. 30 year old cats a probably shot any way


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  18. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,929
    MSC said:
    “...exhaust smell is hard and a little bit like fuel. The car is running a straight exhaust.
    When running it feels a bit “rich”, not that smooth but is not missfiring.”

    if it stinks of fuel you can bet the cats burned. It ain’t hard to figure out why they were removed. Likely cherry red!

    Get a sniff test to confirm!

    i’d guess 80% of the time, the cam timing is off. 10k plus to fix. Cat replacement pipes... a few hundred.

    slap lipstick on that pig and sell it!
     
  19. Schubert Racing

    Aug 18, 2020
    23
    Full Name:
    MSC
    What causes the engine timing to move and How can I inspect if the cars timing is ok, Cant it be done by scanning the car with the Ferrari computer or is it purely mechanic as I suspect and you need to drop the engine?
     
  20. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,929
    #18 vincenzo, Nov 29, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
    The timing should not change on its own unless there are serious issues. Unlikely.

    Many (most?) belts get changed during a major without re-timing the engine. ‘Just’ replacing the belts will frequently throw the timing off enough to not pass a smog test.... frequently off enough to send unburned fuel down the exhaust sufficient to burn out the cats.

    the only way to check is with a four gas analyzer..... find a ferrari dealer or trusted specialist for a ppi. Guys on this site can make suggestions based on your location.

    the only way to fix is to pull the engine and properly time the cams. If the car is due for a service... not usually a big deal.

    here is one of the issues for example... adjusting for slop in the cam drive assembly is frequently not approached the exact same way from tech to tech, service to service. One guy adjusts the timing with the slop fully removed. The next guy just changes out the belts the lazy way.... but doesn’t fully take out the slop before tightening down. Bam... out by 3 or 4 degrees. Spec says no more than one degree.

    this is a precision engine. Even without cats.... if you smell a rich exhaust it is way off. I have been told that a well running engine will pass a smog snif test even without cats. Get a sniff test!

     
  21. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    My car had a major done by Ferrari and no cats=> it didn’t pass smog in California. Had to put cats back on for it to pass not just the visual inspection but the emissions too


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  22. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,929
    Each state has different laws. Ca is about as strict as they come. The visual will merit a no-pass in many (most?) states.

    No smog test required in my location as a “classic vehicle”.

    any chance you can post the emissions data with and without cats?
     
  23. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 Veteran
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    I’ll have to go in my archives ;)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  24. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,929
    TIA - it would be great input to better understand factual data rather than anecdotal hearsay.
     
  25. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    6,736
    southwest germany
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    romano schwabel
    3 - 4 degrees camshaft are 6 - 8 degrees crankshaft, or do you mean those 3 - 4 degrees already at the crankshaft?
     
  26. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    2,929
    #24 vincenzo, Nov 29, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
    Factory always measures crank degrees. As you note- if it were measured at the cam... divide by 2. It would be highly impractical to try and measure rotation at the cam.

    This may help:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/83958-major-2016-cam-timing.513496/

    Your comment emphasizes just how closely ferrari wants these cams. The 1 crank degree or less spec equate to less than half a degree at the cam. It really does require a lot of attention to get it right!
     
  27. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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    mrp_e, Senna1994, Camelot and 4 others like this.

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