What transmission oil could be this? | FerrariChat

What transmission oil could be this?

Discussion in '348/355' started by Ricambio, Jan 3, 2018.

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  1. Ricambio

    Ricambio Karting

    Dec 30, 2016
    76
    Hello,

    I'm changing the oil transmission to this F355 (current owner doesn't have a clue what was the last time was changed and therefore not now what oil was used) but we are using this time REDLINE 75w90 NS. It just me surprised to see such grey thick (cold) fluid comming out of the transmission. We decided to change it because we experienced hard cold shiftings as I think, many owners here as well.

    Any thoguhts?

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  2. John M

    John M Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2004
    887
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    No idea. But that reminds me of oil with water in it.
     
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  3. SeattleM5

    SeattleM5 Formula 3
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    Agreed. I would check the water/oil heat exchanger and make sure that hasn't failed. Also, how does the coolant in the expansion tank look? Any cross contamination there?

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  4. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    See the results of ASTM High Temperauire Oxidation test. Torco filter patch result shows similar colour. Red Line Synthetic 75w-90 (not mentioned whether it is "NS") didn't do very well either. I would consider oils on the left side of the chart. I also attach the full document (pdf) on various test result of a number of gear oils.

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  5. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    this came out of the gearbox
     
  6. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    I just changed the gearbox oil in my 85 QV. 10 year old valvoline syn 75-90 it was brown, but it looked nothing like the tan color sample of the tested oils posted. You'll never know what it was, just be glad it's out.
     
  7. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3
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    Exactly, if your heat exchanger is leaking then antifreeze can get in your gear box. Inside the heat exchanger your antifreeze and gear box oil come together separated by just some thin tubes. They definitely fail.

    That looks like emulsion to me but I guess could be the oxidation mentioned above?
     
  8. SeattleM5

    SeattleM5 Formula 3
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    Yes, thank you, that is clear from the photo that was posted. My point is that a failure at the water/oil exchanger can result in gearbox fluid mixing with coolant and vice versa. If there is concern that this component has failed, along with water in the gearbox there can be oil in the coolant thus the recommendation to evaluate the appearance of the coolant in the epansion tank.

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  9. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
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    Another clue is the amount of liquid drained, typically there is more than the spec amount drained. Looks like an exchanger fail from here....
     
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  10. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    That is a fun job with the engine in. But I noted that your engine is already out.
     
  11. SeattleM5

    SeattleM5 Formula 3
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    Mitchell, I don't even want to think about how one would go about accessing the oil lines on the exchanger with the engine in.

    That is indeed a recent photo of my engine out of the car with the oil/water heat exchanger being removed. The good news: That particular exchanger had not failed, . . . yet. Lots of grime and scale on the distal ends likely from inadequate coolant change intervals prior to my ownership but no evidence of cross contamination in the coolant or the gearbox fluid. I pulled the unit to get cleaned and pressure tested.

    I've included a couple of photos of what the gearbox fluid looked like when it came out along with the coolant from the the block. In case anyone is wondering, after my first coolant change a few years back I installed some quick drain fittings in place of the coolant block plugs to make draining the block a mess free affair going forward.

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  12. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    The colours in the chart I posted (extract from the full report which I also attached) show the colouration left on an 8 micron filter through which 50 ml of the oxidised oil is pushed and the filter catches the sludge created so they are not necessarily of the same intensity as the colour of the oil itself. It is, however, interesting that the only filter patch that is gray is the one for Toco so it is possible that the oil in the Ricambio's transmission is Torco and it is gray because it is full of gray sludge. It could also be due to a leak in the heat exchager but the oil does not really look like a milk shake.

    Another point that Ricambio mentioned is that the transmission developed hard cold shifts. In addition to formation of sludge (of different colours), oxidation causes increase in viscosity which will result in harder cold shifts. Torco had rather signifficant viscosity increase after the oxidation test and Red Line was the worst in this respect (see page 10 of the full report).
     
  13. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Nice and clean. What oil was it and how many miles in the transmission?
     
  14. SeattleM5

    SeattleM5 Formula 3
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    Miroljub, I used Redline 75W-90 NS and it had been in service approximately 2 years and 2000 miles.
     
  15. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    That is definitely a nice milkshake of gear oil and engine coolant. Plan on checking/replacing the heat exchanger.
     
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  16. Streetsurfer

    Streetsurfer Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2015
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    If emulsified with another liquid, shouldn't it show tiny bubbles due to air entrapment in the boundary layer between fluids? Maybe look at it under some magnification to rule out or in any mixture of two fluids. I know this is so with moisture from water but not sure about coolant. Anybody know if coolant also creates the same bubbles in the boundary layer as condensation or water will?

    I only see the larger bubbles from the long fall of the fluid, not those smaller ones consistant with emulsification in the main grey areas.
     
  17. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Great idea on the couplings!
     
  18. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    My eye says water/oil mix too. Look familiar? I blew up my motor racing at Indianapolis in October. Does anyone know what solvent cuts that goo? Man it is sticky gooey nasty stuff. It is like a sludge. I don't know how you are going to get that out of all your oil lines. I would replace as much stuff as I could. NASTY!

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  19. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    I could't agree more!
     
  20. GTO Joe

    GTO Joe Formula Junior
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    Yes it is a great idea and a great opportunity Dave. How about putting together a kit to accomplish this miserable chore? I am sure there are a number of us that would be interested in purchasing one. Just a thought. :)
     
  21. GTO Joe

    GTO Joe Formula Junior
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    For the OP. If that was my oil I would send it out to one of the firms that does analysis to try and find out what is in that oil. It sure doen't look good to say the least.
     
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  22. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    I'll buy one
     
  23. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    I appreciate that but looks like it's already available so no need to reinvent the wheel. Ettore - can you post details please?
     
  24. Enzojr

    Enzojr F1 World Champ

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    I rarely catch a subliminal message ........
    But I got this one ;)
    Hint Hint
     
  25. Gialllo uno

    Gialllo uno Formula Junior

    Jul 5, 2014
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    Prestone 50/50 mix with Valvoline = chocolate milk.
     

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