What would determine if a team would "scrap" a CF tub after an incedent?

They have test rigs that notice flex and bends under loads. These are normally not at the track. At the track - if you can put it back together, you put it back together.

 

The force of the hit doesn't matter that much, it's the angle and where...

Magnussen's shunt last week wasn't particularly big for instance (and he went into the tires only), but he needed a chassis change. There have been some some much bigger shunts in recent years and the chassis was fine.

 

They will throw them in the bin (so to speak). Once the chassis has gotten enough damage to warrent a chassis change, it'll take too much weight to fix it properly (otherwise it flexes too much). I'm surprised if even the poor teams will reuse one to be honest...carbon fiber isn't really expensive, but a chassis will take up to 3 weeks to build from scratch IIRC.

IIRC Vettel had a hairline fracture in one of his chassis in the last couple of years and that chassis was binned.

I suppose some teams that tend to give demo's or have a museum fix the chassis (if it's worth it). A demo car really doesn't need a chassis that's 100% perfect as they won't go for lap times.

One of the Red Bull demo cars is quite interesting...I think it's an RB2 with the Cosworth V10, and then a whole mix of parts ranging from the RB3 all the way to the RB7 off random parts!

 

+1

They can take a lot, but once broken they're typically pretty much done. Remember, it'd need to go back in the autoclave to cure and that can upset the existing bits etc.

That's one reason they want the, eg, suspension arms to break off without damaging the pick up point - dump the old arm, put a new one on and carry on. However, eg, if the arm punches thru the mount it's (pretty much) all over for that entire tub.

Aluminum tubs OTOH may crumple, but the broken/twisted bits can often be cut away and new panels put back as good as new. (I've done it....)

Cheers,
Ian

 

Yes I edited my above post before seeing this...

I'm sure Ferrari will rebuild if you're Corse Clienti, for others driving in BOSSGP it'll be a bit harder to phone up Arrows (obviously defunct) or Benetton and tell them ''listen chaps...had a small incident, do you mind building me a chassis?'' lol. But then again...for those guys a heavier chassis makes no difference.

In fact...companies like Rennwerk can actually 3d scan your entire F1 car and will built parts that have been broken. Things like wings, diffusers, floor, suspension arms, brake ducting can all get damaged quite easy in a crash and these guys can then rebuilt the part, leaving you save not to scour Ebay until you drop dead because your a arm broke!

 

Often turned into show cars. Easy to 'hide' the damage if nots going to be used again.....

Indeed. As long as they've still got the molds in usable condition and you've got a blank cheque!

One of the reasons many 'historic' guys (from F3 thru to F1 etc) much prefer old style aluminum tubs as they can be repaired. Same in the driver schools apparently - you do not want to trash a CF tub.... IIRC, it's almost impossible to insure for such a thing - they'll cover repairs to the car, but if you destroy a tub, you're on your own..... (Although, that may be out of date info, anyone know the deal these days?)

Cheers,
Ian

 

Alluminium tubs scare me. Big ballsacks needed to race hard with those things! One look at David Purley's tub is almost enough (although if I had the opportunity to race historic F1 I'd do it in a heartbeat! I just wish I had sideburns...)

 

+1

I don't think even they can do an entire new tub though. And as you say, where exactly you may be able to find any Minardi or Larousse (what I once drove) molds remains an exercise for the reader.

Back in the dark ages, we often used to take 'good' parts (suspension arms etc), make a quick jig and fabricate some spares. Pretty easy to do with steel.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

Indeed. However, I can't help thinking that I'd rather have a decent sized shunt in a 'late model' aluminum tub than an early (pre-crash tests) CF version.... They'll twist & distort, but wouldn't (often anyway!) disintegrate!

That was an exceptional case though. One could make an argument that if it wasn't for weight a good old space frame is the way to go..... Some of those things could be run over by a bus with no ill effects - And even if some bits got bent 'twas easy to cut them out and weld in some new pieces....

Cheers,
Ian

 

Rennwerk has a bunch of ex toyota F1 guys working for them...from carbon experts to engines techies. I suppose it's to do with how far they go with the 3d scan. If it's not scanned you're **** out of luck...so to say.

That's rather impressive actually. I had no idea they where that strong!

Got to love how easy everything was back then...I can see a mechanic with a smoke hanging from his lips quickly welding a bit of suspension then send the driver out again 5 mins later. Lots of sideburns and flat caps. Probably a couple of cans of Elf fuel too, all around smokers and welding machines.

 

Possibly. They could certainly scan the bare tub and hence duplicate pick up points and so on. What I'm not so sure about is how they then translate that into the way which 'style' of fibers are laid up where and what thicknesses etc. I guess maybe the Toyota guys could figure it out, and as you you say if it's a little heavy, so what.

One things for sure, it's gonna be *mega* expensive!.....

A well done space frame probably remains one of the strongest things ever thrown around a race track!.... Heavy, but they were strong!

Pretty much.... Except I never wore a flat cap or had sideburns!.....

Oxy-act gun, some brazing sticks (we could do aluminum too), a cigarette, and life was good

Cheers,
Ian

 

Fer sure, technology has moved on and *maybe* they can be 'repaired' using some fancy ass glues etc.

My understanding however, and I certainly admit I'm way out of date here, was that once it's ****ed, it's ****ed..... You can 'patch' aluminum, even honeycomb, but CF gets it's strength in the autoclave under high pressure & temperature.

I don't think 'repair' is feasible. But, I'd love to be proven wrong by someone more up to date.

Cheers,
Ian

 

This explains a few

Vettel?s new chassis downplayed | TopCar

 

Most of the static display F1 cars that you see at events/shows/in museums etc., are built up from damaged tubs that are deemed no longer safe to use, and parts that have gone past their mileage/time expiry dates, are old spec parts no longer required or parts that worn out.

 

Yep.

Got involved in building one once upon a time. It was almost 'embarrassing' the liberties we took with the thing.....

"We can't do that!"
"Why not?"
"It's just not right!"
"So what?"
"Fair comment!...."

Cheers,
Ian

 

I've seen a couple of genuine F1 static display cars proudly claiming to be Ferrari's that had never even seen Maranello, let alone been built there!