What would you do...? | FerrariChat

What would you do...?

Discussion in '348/355' started by troy_wood, Apr 27, 2009.

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  1. troy_wood

    troy_wood Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2007
    1,457
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Full Name:
    Troy Wood
    #1 troy_wood, Apr 27, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2009
    I put in a 350 mile weekend on my 91 ts and its been over 700 miles since my major service. I get home last night, back the car into the garage and wait for the fans to stop before shutting down. As I am waiting I start to hear a slight 'hitching' noise that grows in duration, volume and frequency. In a mere 5 minutes its grown to a grinding-squealing right in front of me. I am freaking out and dive inside the car to turn the key off.

    WTF has just happened? I get my nose into the engine bay and no signs. Both oil pressure and temp were fine... I leave the garage and go take some deep breaths, then to fchat to do a search entering my symptoms into the search field. I am thinking 3 possibilities - the 3 things that I didn't do during my engine out service!!!

    1 - water pump (seemed to be just fine at the time)
    2 - internal chain upgrade - Ferrari TSB
    3 - tig weld the drive pulley flange to the pulley as they have been known to separate

    So I go though the whole day today wondering about the best course of action moving forward. No Ferrari service around me for 1k miles. Throughout the day I am thinking about the alternator and its tensioner and the air con pump but I rule them out as the whole event came on too suddenly and it just didn't sound like a typical alt bearing failure (I've heard them before and there has always been indicators that they are slowly failing).

    Getting on to the question of the above title - on my drive home from work I think "should I disconnect the alternator and ac belts and start it up again knowing that there is a possibility my water pump might now be seized or I have oil chain tensioner fragments floating around in my sump?" Possibly even a flange hanging off a pulley behind that timing belt cover!

    I put the car on the lift this evening and took both belts off. Lowered it, climbed in and hit the key. The sound was gone and I was very relieved! I stopped the engine, raised the car back up and inspected the alternator - the bearings are completely shot. Spinning it squeals and it is very rough like gravel inside. What I am so surprised about is that a 348 alternator can have sudden total failure of the bearings and that it did not sound at all like an alternator failure (no warning light either).

    Does the decision to start the car for diagnosis come down to ones comfortable level of risk?

    What would you have done?
     
  2. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    What would I have done? I probably would have popped off one of the cam belt caps at the front of the engine to see if there was any visual evidence of heat/wear on the backside of the cam belt. If it looked OK, I would have done what you did, check for problems with the alternator/belt/tensioner. If you describe the noise as "grinding-squealing", that doesn't sound like a good description of a pulley flange issue. Maybe a chain tensioner would sound like that, I'm not sure.

    Glad it appears that you'll be able to sort it out at minimal cost and effort!
     
  3. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,429
    socal
    I hate to say it but your Ferrari will work much better once you have fixed every single part on the car to your standards. It took me a year + t touch everything at least once. But after that it was flawless. The mistake is thinking as these cars age that you can just fix what is broken A 348 today is easily 15 years old some older.
     
  4. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,249
    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Pap
    I am with Jeff on this one! :D:D

    I would have removed the covers to see if there was anything visible on the top of the cam belt. If that all looked ok, then I would have dropped the accessory belts and taken it from there. :):)

    Glad to hear its a cheap fix mate. :):)
     
  5. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,634
    The Brickyard
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    The Bad Guy
    I would have pop the cambelt tops off first as Jeff said. Then I would have done the same thing you did, got the car in the air and removed the accessory belts.
     
  6. troy_wood

    troy_wood Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2007
    1,457
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Full Name:
    Troy Wood
    FBB - I believe you.

    I tell you fellas, this was one of the worst feelings - don't want to go through it again... Next fall the lump is coming out again and I am going to inspect/replace any components behind that front cover. Also will replace the WP and am going to tig weld all my pulley flanges. I can't believe I didn't do them the first time around...

    I did take the 5-8 cam cap off to inspect before I started it. I was concerned about the restart the next day because of what may have changed now that a full heat cycle had been completed.

    The alternator is at the shop getting new bearings right now - I will post both ID and OD bearing dimensions as well as brand and part number on the 'parts interchange' thread.
     
  7. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,634
    The Brickyard
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    The Bad Guy
    Nice.
     
  8. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
    Full Name:
    Rick Schumm
    Glad you didn't have a major problem, Troy. I still tend to feel that if everything in the belt drive is straight, not worn, and torqued, the belt should not ride on the pulley fences. But tigging can't hurt. I didn't have my tig setup when I installed mine, so didn't do it on my old cam pulleys. No sign of problems when disassembled, and new belt ran true when turned by hand a bunch before installing covers. I guess time will tell how many more of us have pulley failures.
     
  9. 50hdmc

    50hdmc Formula 3

    Oct 10, 2006
    1,211
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    mark s
    Troy, I am glad for you that it was something easy to replace (and not costly either). Taking the front cover off was no joy on my 30K service but I am happy I did it now. You are also very lucky really that this all happened at home.....
     
  10. troy_wood

    troy_wood Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2007
    1,457
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Full Name:
    Troy Wood
    I couldn't believe the meltdown happened as soon as I pulled into the garage - it was good bad luck.

    New front bearing in the alternator was $57(parts and labour). Put it back in yesterday and all is perfect. I adjusted the belt tension to the lighter side - I'm going to experiment a bit to see how light a tension I can get without slippage or squeal. From what I can tell, less tension (while being easier on bearings) will create less front engine noise.
     
  11. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,634
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    Right on Troy, and thanks for the update.
     

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