What would you do? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

What would you do?

Discussion in '348/355' started by Mark_M5, Oct 19, 2010.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Mark_M5

    Mark_M5 Karting

    Nov 14, 2006
    115
    Ventura County, CA
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I noticed a lot of people focus on the maintenance. I know that's a major concern, but people say the same type of stuff about the M5. Yet, my experience with my M5 has been nothing short of "glorious". I've put 60k miles on it with hardly any issues.

    My brother is a smart guy when it comes to financials (he's a CFO also in the market with a similar budget), and he has a philosophy that I agree with:

    When contemplating a Ferrari, the main counterpoint to the maintenance cost is the depreciation curve in comparison to other brands. Depreciation is the most significant cost of ownership in most vehicles, yet it's also the most overlooked. How much is that 308 in the window? How much did it cost new? It seems that 308's have bottomed out and are actually coming UP in value. I think 348's and 355's may also be near the low point of their depreciation curve. Sure, it's possible that 5 years from now a $50k 355 will be selling for $35k; but it might as likely stay flat or close to that same amount. It's an absolute guarantee that a BMW will depreciate 30% or more.

    Not a problem, but I heard lower numbers. BTW, I'd never go to a dealer. I don't like being raped. "I know a guy who knows a guy"... There's an independent down the road from my work.

    I thought maintenance was pretty similar... ?

    I really appreciate your viewpoint, especially with the first-hand experience! I had heard about the earlier year 355 issues. That's why the 1999 one had my eye. It has an aftermarket exhaust too. One issue down. Stick shift, that's 2 down.

    :)
     
  2. Mark_M5

    Mark_M5 Karting

    Nov 14, 2006
    115
    Ventura County, CA
    Full Name:
    Mark
    LOL

    I used to in my younger hot rodder days. I think I developed an alergy to grease and bloody nuckles along the way someplace. Hence the M5. It's a "fire and forget" street sleeper missile.

    But it's too quiet. :)

    But it's not a convertible!!! :(

    I know a jeweler... already setting that up 'cause my 10 year anniversary is coming up... :)
     
  3. Bradley

    Bradley F1 Rookie

    Nov 23, 2006
    2,831
    Lakewood, Colorado
    Full Name:
    Bradley
    The 355 is a more modern car than the 348. (Personally, I love the 348, but not everyone apparently does.)

    The 355 is also a more complicated machine. The five-valves-per-cylinder design adds a lot to the maintenance cost. Yes, the 355 maintenance costs are higher.

    BUT, you indicate that $10k for service is not an issue.

    I recommend you get the best later 355, well-sorted, for the price you can afford.

    You can never tell with women, but I've known many who thought Ferraris were "too flashy," "too testosterone-rich," "too small," "too noisy," etc. - who later fell in love with it. Your wife could be one of those.

    If not, put some money in the budget to buy her a nice diamond - but not a flashy one! ;)
     
  4. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,241
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Yes and no- A newer car will have less, on average, in maintenance- Maintenance does NOT just mean scheduled "preventative" maintenance like belts and valves- it means fixing broke stuff- which means that my very limited experience with three difference Ferraris so far has the 355 leading the way- cause nothing is broken so far. Once I do the next belt service and average that over a few years of driving I think the maintenance will be roughly the same-

    If you have the misfortune of owning a troublesome 355- a major plus some electrical problems plus headers plus a clutch- Wow you'll be sitting on a $100K 355 in no time at all.
     
  5. jefflynch

    jefflynch Rookie

    Sep 6, 2010
    28
    Kansas City, MO
    Full Name:
    Jeff Lynch
    I looked at this car in Tuscon and was interested until I saw the carfax. This car has a salvage title (the seller told me it had been stolen, declared a total loss, etc..). I'm trying to attach the file, but not sure I'm smart enough.

    I have looked at at least 60 F355's pretty closely online, and several in person. I made a deal on a '97 with 23,000 miles on it for a little less than $60K, less the cost of the major service and a couple of other things. It seemed like most cars under about $55K had some kind of issue (either questionable service history, title issues, odomoter, etc...)that scared me away. Right or wrong, my number became $60K. At that number, I found a number of (seemingly) clean, well-maintained cars to choose from. There were/are many cars listed at $65, 70, 75K, etc... and I could figure out why they were asking so much more?

    Good luck!
     
  6. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2007
    6,823
    Lake Villa IL
    I'll throw in my 2 cents.

    I have automotive ADD, having owned 125+cars.

    I used to use performance numbers such as horsepower, 1/4 mile et and MPH as major guidelines to decide what car I would next purchase.

    For years I wanted an F355, mostly because of the sound and secondly because of the looks but never seriously considered the car because of the measured acceleration numbers.

    After watching the F355 tribute video on you-tube about a thousand times I convinced myself that I had to have one. Even though I work on cars for a living (well, dyno-tuning mostly) I still wanted to buy an extremely nice example that was well sorted and I ended up with a 99 GTS.

    I have to say that overall I have more fun in this car than the 1000+hp 07 ZO6 I owned previously.

    I love the feel of the car and the smell of the interior. I absolutely cannot get enough of the sound, it is amazing. Even if the car did nothing else well the sound alone would almost be worth it, but I often find myself saying "wow this car is excellent" even if stuck in the rain.

    I didn't consider a 308/328 because I really didn't think I could stay entertained with the amount of power those cars make. I could be completely wrong on that as I doubted the F355 would be enough to keep me entertained as well.

    I did not consider a 360 or 430 because of looks. I'm not saying they are horribly bad looking cars but they don't inspire me at all whereas the 355 does.

    Because of my aforementioned ADD I may not keep this car forever, as I rarely keep any car for long, but in my opinion the F355 is the best sports car I have ever owned or driven when considering the overall experience.
     
  7. rllucero

    rllucero Formula Junior

    Jul 11, 2006
    559
    Santa Fe/San Diego
    Full Name:
    richontravel
    Before you buy a car talk to a Ferrari mechanic such as Dave Helms or Brian Crall, you will get the straight scoop from those guys. Some of the comments posted in this thread aren't necessarily all that true. I strongly recommend buying a well sorted car with all service records and I prefer low mileage cars. For whatever reason once a Ferrari hits 30K miles you'd swear its about to blow up because buyers stay away from those cars. Don't believe all the BS that a car with more miles would be a better car to own. I guarantee you NOBODY will buy a car with a bunch of miles unless you are going to give it away. Remember, the car you buy will be for sale someday.

    I bought my car with 7800 miles and it now has 11,5XX miles and it hasn't given me ONE single problem. I was fortunate to have Dave Helms check it out and had him take care of the little things before taking delivery.

    Ferrari ownership is great when you have right car.
     
  8. Mark_M5

    Mark_M5 Karting

    Nov 14, 2006
    115
    Ventura County, CA
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I've watched the video of the new Corvette ZR-1 going around the Nurburgring a couple times. It only has 638hp or so. I can only imagine how a 1000hp Vette would drive.

    So that's a powerful endorsement for the 355 :)
     
  9. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2007
    6,823
    Lake Villa IL
    Well, in a straight line at wide open throttle the TT Z06 was more fun than an F355, but the opportunities to do that in such a car are rare.

    ZR-1 is quite a car but didn't fare well against my Z06 (in a straight line), which currently resides in Saudi Arabia. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFAQgsVKie8

    The nice thing about an F355, other than the amazing sound, is that it's so well balanced. I feel very comfortable driving it quickly and going wide open throttle out of a corner. Nice controllable power but still entertaining.

    The same can not be said for a car with over 1k hp. Spirited driving on the street is a white knuckle experience and that anxiety is amplified in corners. Overall I found it less enjoyable because you cannot relax at all when driving it quickly or bad things will happen.
     
  10. Mark_M5

    Mark_M5 Karting

    Nov 14, 2006
    115
    Ventura County, CA
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Good point. I was thinking that depreciation was abnormally low in used Ferraris, but that perception may be skewed based on low mileage.
     
  11. eyboro

    eyboro Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 30, 2004
    989
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Eitan
    #36 eyboro, Oct 19, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2010
    Hey you've got a wholesale jeweler here on Fchat with specials for Fchat members, (ME); I have a red 97' 355 Spider traded in a 348 back in 2001, no comparison, buy a well sorted 355 and be done. Most regular maintenance you can do your self or have and independent do for you, as to major services like 30k engine out service , I would have an authorized dealer do that job. Oh, and if you are buying a 355 and you want to get looks and for future resale, buy RED ONLY
     
  12. Sandy Eggo

    Sandy Eggo F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jun 4, 2009
    3,636
    Encinitas, CA
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Sell it?! Perish the thought. Get a good example at the right price, treat it right and you will want to keep it forever. Acceleration and top speed be damned...this thing is an engineering triumph and work of art in design. Timeless. Oh, and the sound!!!!!!
     
  13. Rob'Z

    Rob'Z Formula 3

    Mar 29, 2008
    1,024
    Tucson,AZ
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Agree 100%. Buy the car YOU want not the car the possible next owner may want. These things are about passion not resale. Cars (in general) are not investments they are tools or toys.

    For a mileage example my '97 Viper GTS with 79,000 miles drove better than my buddy's '97 GTS with 22,000 miles. The things that needed to be replaced had been replaced and my car had newer parts as a result. Just something to keep in mind.


    Rob
     
  14. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,789
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Sounds like a 348 or 355 is your target.

    Just make sure it has a well documented service history.
     
  15. Interian

    Interian Karting

    Jul 22, 2008
    174
    Miami
    Full Name:
    Albert
    I own an M3 and there is no comparison with the Ferrari on this point. When contemplating a 348 or even a 355, maintenance and repairs can eat up the depreciation curve. It is not just the anticipated items like major engine out service but the fact that every little part that you do not think about is really expensive compared to a BMW part. In the 355 there is more to go wrong and with age it will. This is why service records and prior owners that do not neglect the car are important.

    Think about what it cost to switch an A/C to R134 as an example. How about a radiator, oil filter, 12 quarts of top notch oil. Just spend some time on Ricambi America's site and get a real understanding about part costs. And there are some parts that are just impossible to find. Hope one of those does not break.

    All this to say that it is important to find a well maintained car and that any deferred maintenance (even just a knob) can cost a lot of money. On a $50,000 car, maintenance is a big percentage of value.
     
  16. yronZFF

    yronZFF Formula Junior
    Owner

    Dec 21, 2009
    749
    FIVE-O
    Full Name:
    Ron
    So did I, from the 308 (then 328 when it came out), but go for the 355!
    If you think you want one now (355), wait till you drive one! The feel AND the SOUND! And yes, drive a Spider ... if the top gives you problems, just fix it or get it fixed ... and drive it again! Nothing compares to driving a Spider!
    Yes, absolutely! Maybe even $20k if you want to install things that you don't need, but you want! :D
     
  17. Mark_M5

    Mark_M5 Karting

    Nov 14, 2006
    115
    Ventura County, CA
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I found a 1997 Red one in New York with 45k miles and all maintenance history, new top, and clean Carfax...

    for $45k!

    I'm wondering if I should jump on it before one of the other fence-sitters gets there :)

    Then again, I found this link on Youtube of the M6 on Nurburgring...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELjb_NKj4uA

    ...and M6's are going for 45k all over the place

    Decisions!
     
  18. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,329
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    Look, you are either going to be bitten by the Ferrari bug or not. If no, no biggie there are dozens of suitable and interesting alternatives to feed you sports car craving. Any Ferrari is going to be a challenge to own and care for without the passion or need for the brand and what it brings.

    If you do fall under the Ferrari spell then as far as this section is concerned you have either the 348 or the 355 alternatives. Personally I think a decent sub-$50K 355 is going to be a challenge, and a bit of a gamble, unless you like to twist a wrench. When I was in your place about 9 years ago, the mechanics I interviewed steered me to the 348 as the best ownership experience for the first time owner. So far so good through 2 cars and 8 years ownership.

    Now I was looking to step up to a 355 after the first 348 but heard the siren call of a certain Serie Speciale. Still for the money you are discussing, get the best 348 you can and bank the rest. Try Ferrari ownership for a while. Then take on a 355 if you like.
     
  19. Mark_M5

    Mark_M5 Karting

    Nov 14, 2006
    115
    Ventura County, CA
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I hadn't really given much thought to getting an entry car and transitioning from one car to another, but that's an option to ponder also.

    Thanks!
     
  20. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,789
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mike
    That is great advice Vince.
     
  21. Mark_M5

    Mark_M5 Karting

    Nov 14, 2006
    115
    Ventura County, CA
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I hope nobody kills me for not taking it...

    If I can find a reputable mechanic in NY to do a PPI then I might just pull the trigger on that 355 spider there...

    It's no garage queen, but the description makes it sound like it was treated like a cherished love.
     
  22. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,241
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    You know- I honestly would not talk to a Ferrari mechanic first if you are planning to buy your "Dream Car"- I mean, if you want to create an spreadsheet that will accurately predict your exact cost of ownership down to the penny- speak to a Ferrari mechanic- or buy a Honda.

    You're looking at buying an older exotic car- and no matter how complete the records are- stuff's gonna break and wear out, and regular service will be expensive.

    most Ferrari pros I know have a love-hate relationship with the 348/355 series- Pain in the ass to service some things, but they're in the business to bill for such service.

    And seriously- when buying your "Dream Car" let's not worry about "resale" value... I could care less what my car is worth now or in the future...If it depreciates any more- so be it.
     
  23. yronZFF

    yronZFF Formula Junior
    Owner

    Dec 21, 2009
    749
    FIVE-O
    Full Name:
    Ron
    Before you jump, see if you can drive one. Red manual 355 Spiders are always out there. There must be a few for sale close to you in CA.
     
  24. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
    8,329
    Palos Verdes
    Full Name:
    Vince V
    As a first Ferrari a spider is a challenge - I know because that's exactly what I did. It was a great car but I felt I could not park it any where due to security. Next, you can't always drive it when the weather is not perfect like a TS or TB. Third a Spider is noisier than a coupe though you won't care for a while until you follow some yahoo with a Tubi during a club event. Fourth you really need to store the car with the top up to preserve it vrs. just parking it with the top (and plastic rear window) folded in the boot. Not too bad with a power top 355 but a bit of a pain in a 348. The top and window do require periodic care but its no biggie. Last if you ever just want to close up the top and cruise around with the A/C on forget it. The Spider cab is about as sound as a bait bucket.

    Get which ever you like but at least you're forewarned. Everyone wants a ride in it but few want to take a drive with you (with women it's the hair thing). A TS is a better option.
     
  25. Mark_M5

    Mark_M5 Karting

    Nov 14, 2006
    115
    Ventura County, CA
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I'm not sure how to go about getting a drive in one. I don't really want to go for a test drive in one that I'm not honestly considering buying. I feel that's unfair to the seller. I could rent one for several hundred bucks, and I have considered that. I've watched every Youtube video I could find about what it's like to be in one. I hear what you're saying. For all I know, the seat could be painfully uncomfortable.

    If any F-chatters in Southern California would be willing to trade a ride in a 355 for a ride in a 2002 M5, I would be thrilled. :) Believe it or not, the performance (on paper at least) is really close.

    Not sure what you mean by that.

    I really like the TS, and I could definitely go for that option. I don't see those for sale as often. I'd definitely keep the car in a safe place most of the time. Granted, if I wanted to cruise up the coast and stay overnight, it might worry me to leave a soft top out in sight of the criminal element.
     

Share This Page