What would you do? | FerrariChat

What would you do?

Discussion in '348/355' started by markgllc, Jun 2, 2011.

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  1. markgllc

    markgllc Karting

    Dec 25, 2008
    179
    Fairborn, OH
    I had a $6K service done (and $1200 in parts) on my 40,000 mile 348 and it leaked nothing when I took it in for service. It basically need the belt changed and water pump done (which I don't think was done as the old parts from the pump were not with the other parts he showed me he replaced.

    Ever since getting it back the car has had a coolant leak and also developed an oil leak on the drivers side valve cover. I had the throwout bearing done too and trip seals and it's leaking clutch fluid also ;-(

    When I dropped my car off the mileage was not written down on his shop form (but I know what it was) and when I picked it up there was about 350 miles on the car that should not have been on the clock. I didn't notice it until I left or Id have said something right then! I have found dents and bumper scuffs on the car that I know were not there when I took it in and the guy had the car almost 4 months!!! During this time my car sayed friggen outside and the paint looked like s%^t when I picked it up. The curved rear window has wicked up water in one corner and I know it wasn't like that! Im sure all the water helped all my engine connections too!!! There were greasy paw prints in many places (to include the headliner of the targa that won't come out). I KNOW THIS CAR and am 100% positve it was NOT like that when I dropped it off. The topper was finding grass clippings all over my "fresh" engine and other places on the car where the mower blew stuff all over it for a few months...if I sound unhappy you would be right.

    The cosmetics I've delt with and cleaned up what can be cleaned, but even after buffing the gray along the bottom, it is too water stained to make right and will need to be repainted.

    Basically I spent 6K to have a proper service done on the car and got it back worse than how it was when I took it in. As I said NO leaks prior now it leaks oil, antifreeze and clutch fluid...The climate control was also returned inoperative which was good when I dropped it off.

    I was not going to say anything but I've decided this person will not work on my car again so I really don't care if someone puts 2&2 together and figures out who did my work.

    My question to all of you is...what would you do? I won't openly air the shop that did the work but they have a good rep in this forum...I have to say I am less than impressed with what it cost me and what I got for the money. I am really disturbed by all the new leaks I now have and how much I had to spend to get them ;-) not to mention what I'm going to have to go through to fix them. Its not right!!!!

    I guess the moral is just because someone says they know what they are doing there is no guarantee they do. I expected the service to make the car sound for awhile and I'm more afraid to drive it now than I was before the belt service. I don't feel I got my moneys worth and my car has more problems than when it went in...and more miles that I know I didn't put on it! Miles are money on these cars...and I got taken advantage of.

    If I was stupid maybe I wouldn't have noticed the mechanical stuff but the grease all over the interior is just plain unprofessional. Missing the extra miles put on the car WAS my fault but I guess I was caught up in the moment of FINALLY getting my car back and didn't think to look until I had left but I know someone had been driving my car...A LOT more than just test driving it.

    I will add the guy offered to look at it when I mentioned all the problems but how long would it be at his place this time? I won't do that again. The ONLY reason I didn't do the job myself was I wanted someone that KNOWS these engines better than I do to do the work. In all honesty knowing what I know now I could have bought the lift and done it myself for 3 grand less and I KNOW it would not leak. This whole ordeal has left a bad taste in my mouth...I trusted someone I don't think they did me as they would want to be treated...

    Make sure when you drop your car off for service the mileage IS on the form!!! Granted they can just unplug the sender but at least if it's on the form...they have to DO something before racking up miles on your car they should not be putting on it!!!

    I feel the shop should have to pay to fix the problems they created. I do not trust them so there is no chance I will ever take my 348 back to them but do feel compensation of some kind is owed to fix the problems...what would you guys do?
     
  2. S-T48

    S-T48 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 30, 2008
    575
    Stevenson Ranch, CA
    This is a tough one. Unfortunately, it is mechanics like this who give a bad reputation to a great car.
    Stories like this make me want to hug my mechanic (Eugenio's Ferrari Service). I trust my mechanic more than I do my doctor :)
     
  3. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Unfortunately your story is all too common. My best customers come from places like you describe.
     
  4. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

    Jun 1, 2007
    2,548
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Lane
    Your question is "what would I do". I would be screaming and kicking, cleaning my weapons, contacting the Better Business Bureau, local government officials, and my attorney, blabbing his name all over the internet, picketing his establishment, threatening his children, raping his wife and dog...but then, I tend to overreact. Perhaps I'd leave his dog out of it.
     
  5. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,777
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    #5 plugzit, Jun 2, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
    Sorry about your bad experience. I understand your anger, and I would be too. You don't mention whether you have spoken to the shop about this.
    But the real question is, what to do?
    The shop probably realizes they haven't done a perfect job the first time, particularly as it applies to cosmetics.
    I think a good result here would be repair of the leaking valve cover, coolant leak, and triple seals. With a detail job thrown in for good measure. None of these are major undertakings. The valve cover is maximum a $60 gasket, and maybe just needs retightening. The water leak is probably a loose hoseclamp. Replacing the triple seals is a 50-50 proposition for most mechanics. It's not unusual to have to do them twice. A detailer probably has a chemical that can remove the water spots. Write off the mileage issue as a cheap lesson.
    I'm guessing that if you stifle your anger, take it back for pick-up work and treat them like businessmen who want to solve the problem, you will achieve the best result. As for having to leave the car for a while longer, the alternative is to leave it like it is. Ya gotta cave on that one, but I'll bet your attitude when you go back to them determines how long it will take. Maybe just a day or two. Real bad luck. Complain to somebody who can do something about it first. That experience will tell you a lot about how to proceed, and often will solve everything satisfactorily for all. Threats and lawyers just end up pi$$ing everybody off and delaying results.
     
  6. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,566
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Bruce is right. Suck it up, point out the bad stuff, have them fix it, and never come back again.

    Then, buy a chest full of wrenches, a car lift, and start learning. $6,000 will buy you all the tools you need for a 348.
     
  7. jqpd99

    jqpd99 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2007
    2,479
    Ottawa
    Full Name:
    DFO
    Wow... Bruce the voice of reason... you should have become a mediator... :D:D
     
  8. radlu

    radlu Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2005
    424

    Sorry, respectfully, but I don't think that's going to cut it Bruce. IMHO.


    I think : THE WHOLE THING NEEDS TO BE DONE COMPLETELY OVER AGAIN BY SOMEONE COMPETENT.


    That's what I would do. I don't think you can trust ANYTHING they did.
     
  9. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran

    +1

    been there, done that: Suck it up and outlay again or you'll be revisiting this shop more times than Pap can post on FC.
     
  10. troy_wood

    troy_wood Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2007
    1,457
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Full Name:
    Troy Wood
    #10 troy_wood, Jun 2, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
    Bruce, I view your opinions as pure gold but how do you put the op's mind to rest for the next 3 - 5 years every time he thinks about things like belt tension, valve lash and gasket sealer worms clogging oiler holes? This is where my mind would be if my car came back like this. Respectfully.
     
  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,566
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Buy a chestful of tools and start learning the ways of the stooges!
     
  12. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
    7,777
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    #12 plugzit, Jun 2, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
    Good question. He may decide to invest another $5k to put his mind at rest. Here's why I would do what I said.
    1. Mechanically all that's stated as wrong is a leaking valve cover, a water leak, and a leaking triple seal. None of these are serious, nor are they things that the top mechanic in the shop would be assigned to do. The triple seals should have been caught, but were not, and the most skilled of mechanics have a hard time with those. As far as gasket sealer worms, that's easy. Sealer comes out equally on both sides. How does it look on the outside? Apparently no complaint there. No court is going to make the shop do the entire job over, only correct the faults. The OP could go to the expense of an "expert" to find every fault in the job, but then he's assuming that every bolt and every hose clamp is loose, which I doubt. Timing cams requires torquing bolts and careful attention. I would not put a hose clamp or valve cover nut in the same category, nor would I give it the same attention. I think they call that stuff "pick-up" work. Just me.
    2. Human error is possible in all jobs. A good businessman takes responsibility for his errors, which he is going to make in the course of business occasionally. As a human, I'm going to make errors, and I always appreciate an opportunity to correct my errors, especially before a complaint is lodged to third parties. The OP stated that the shop is one well-known to us, and I doubt if they became well-known by having motors blow up due to negligence. To assume that he did everything wrong because he did one thing wrong is gonna make life really hard.
    3. There was no complaint about the performance of the car, no valve noise, no popping, no farting reported.
    4. I would be angry about the cosmetic condition of the car as well, and might not go back to that shop for new work, but it would not keep me from asking the shop to make things right. Was the condition of the shop such that you would expect a clean car to come out of it? Greasy floors make greasy carpet. Clean floors keep carpet clean. Why did the OP accept the car in that cosmetic condition? Was the shop owner there when it was picked up? Was it returned to the OP by towtruck? There must be more to this story.
    5. Decisions made in anger usually results in war. Neither side wins those wars, only attorneys.
    6. If you took your car in for a leaky valve cover, a water leak, and triple seals, would you have the cam belt replaced?
    7. If you were doing the work yourself and the result was those three items, would you tear it back down and do everything over?
    8. I've gotten really angry before and was glad that a friend stopped me before I did something rash.
     
  13. VTChris

    VTChris F1 World Champ

    Aug 21, 2005
    13,259
    I wouldn't take my car back there, if they can't do it right the first time, they don't know how to make it right.
    Have someone that knows what they are doing, do it over and do it right. Not knowing if you will make it back home after a drive has got to be a 5hitty feeling.
    Regarding all the marks and scufs, unacceptable on so many levels, I wouldn't know what to do about that. But I guess that's why we have attorneys
    So sad this happened, sorry you have to deal with it. I hate hearing things like this. And it's shops like this that give these cars a bad reputation.
    I still have not seen a CEL light in over 6 years on my 348. This car is more reliable than my 2008 E class MB was, and my 08 525, and many other cars I have had.
     
  14. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
    7,777
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    One more thought...
    The mechanical issues would all be covered under the shop warranty. Now's a good time to test it. There's no reason yet to believe it's not good as gold, as apparently none of these issues have been brought to the shop's attention. Any future failure due to workmanship should show up while under that warranty. Loss of confidence in a shop's skill is not an actionable legal issue. (I'm not a lawyer, but confident that's correct). Drive it like ya stole it.
     
  15. PRS

    PRS Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2011
    715
    Issaquah
    Full Name:
    Pete S
    It's shops like these that made me learn how to work on my own vehicles.

    I'd be pissed about the excessive mileage put on the car because who knows what kind of miles those were. My friend got ripped off by his own brother when he took his truck to him for an engine rebuild. Got the truck back with a bunch of leaks and running like crap. A year later, the engine blew and the mechanic who looked at it said that those were all original engine parts in there. That engine was never rebuilt.

    A former friend of mine used to run a very clean, honest shop. A few years later, he admitted to me that he started lying to people about repairs, telling people they had a bad head gasket, etc. Made me sick.

    There's something about auto repair that makes mechanics turn bad. Do the work yourself. You'll know exactly what kind of work was done. :)
     
  16. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    I would never take a car back to a shop that has joy ridden the car without your permission for 350 km's.

    Road tests need to happen, but 350 km's is not a road test. Your car has been taken out of the shop likely for a weekend trip. Take it back and God only knows what is going to occur.
    Pete
     
  17. GerryD

    GerryD Formula 3

    May 5, 2010
    2,442
    North of TO
    Full Name:
    Guido
    #17 GerryD, Jun 2, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
    I too would never let these guys touch my car again. They obviously dont know what they are doing but on the other hand neither did the owner. Ive said it a thousand times. NEVER EVER take your F-car to someone that hasnt done each model at least 5 times in the last year. These cars are easy to work on but you must have experience on them and them alone. They are not like evey other car on the road. They have their little idiosyncrasies that only an experienced wrench knows. I was at my shop today and to watch a guy work on cars he not only knows well but worked on the design of the 430 from start to finish is just amazing to watch. It didnt take long for me to find this shop but before I did I fell for another idiot that used to work for Ferrari and is now being sued for his horrendus work by 4 different people. But guess what there are still people taking their cars there and every couple of months we hear horror stories coming out of that shop.
    Back to the OP, Go back to this guy and tell him that he made a shambles of your car and threaten him with a law suit and you will only back off if he returns half of your money. If he falls for it then take the money and run to a reputable shop. If he dosnt, chalk it up to a life lesson and take it to a decent shop. Forget all about that shop and one day firebomb it.:)
     
  18. troy_wood

    troy_wood Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2007
    1,457
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Full Name:
    Troy Wood
    I think you'll find this in many professions these days...
     
  19. VTChris

    VTChris F1 World Champ

    Aug 21, 2005
    13,259

    Shop warranty? Who the hell wants THEIR shop warranty?
    Attorney or not, I would not take my car back there. I would need to figure something else out, but def one of my options wouldn't be going back
     
  20. Frari

    Frari Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,194
    brisbane australia
    Full Name:
    tony
    I would request that they repair the items that are faulty. There is little room for error when doing a cam belt change so it seems that there is no problem there so I would ask them to correct the mistakes. I have had my clutch seals replaced once in 355 and once in 348mon T both times they were weeping and were re done so it is an each way bet, these were done by ferrari dealer service dept so I would say that it is just unfortunate in this case. as to how the car looked.. very disappointing I would have the mechanical items repaired show the owner of the business the damage that was done for his benefit and once all mechanical was fixed never go there again unless there is a change of ownership.
     
  21. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,777
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mike
    That is terrible Marc, I hope you get it resolved.
     
  22. vegas1

    vegas1 F1 Rookie

    Jul 28, 2004
    4,202
    Australia
    Your story sounds too incredible for words.

    I can't understand how a reputable firm would do the things you mentioned.

    I have a few questions for you:

    * Why did they have your car for four months
    * Why was the car left out in the elements
    * Surely you checked on the car on a weekly basis, so in 16 times, surely you would have 'smelt a rat'.

    Just my opinion. I feel for you, but I dont believe I would ever have allowed the situation to progress to what you experienced.
     
  23. Dave Monk

    Dave Monk Karting

    Apr 23, 2010
    213
    SW Virginia
    Full Name:
    David Monk
    #23 Dave Monk, Jun 2, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
    I agree with Bruce here. Try approaching the shop professionally first and see how they react. I usually never have anything done on any of my vehicles, but on occasion I do. I had a bad experience on a 7 series transmission rebuild once where the shop owner had a guy hired to remove the transmissions - the guy cut the wiring harness to the o2 sensor and where he spliced it back together (instead of spending 2 more minutes and disconnecting it properly) it shorted and burned the car wiring harness a couple weeks after I got the car back. Talk about ticked off!! At any rate the owner fired the guy and paid to have the BMW dealer fix the car - so you never know.. If the guy is a real prick about fixing it, you might want to take the advice of others and move on to someone else and consider that guy a bad lesson learned.
     

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