What's my car worth? | Page 4 | FerrariChat

What's my car worth?

Discussion in '308/328' started by johnk..., Dec 7, 2011.

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  1. Dino944

    Dino944 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2007
    1,598
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    Dino
    If you are 18 and only into drag racing, maybe your statement is accurate.
    One car being faster than another is hardly a measure of which car is better, more collectible, or more fun to drive, or why someone chooses one model over another.

    Ask a car collector if they would rather have 1972 Carrera 2.7 RS or a 997TT, or a 360 rather than a 275GTB/4. The 997TT and 360 are nice cars but they aren't really considered collectible.

    Best regards,
    Dino
     
  2. rob

    rob F1 Rookie

    May 22, 2002
    4,130
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    There's also the Ferrarichat camp and the non-Ferrarichat camp. When I go look at a car I can come here and find out just about anything I need to know about a 308 I'm interested in there are a lot of other buyers who don't have the knowledge that we do. They don't know that if a 3x8 is missing the spare or missing the toolkit or hasn't had a belt service in five years etc.etc that things like that take away the value of the car.
    I looked at a 308 qv this summer that had what I would call a good foundation i.e. decent body decent drivetrain but had been neglected. It needed exhaust work, belt service, had oil leaks, play in the front end was missing the toolkit and spare and a few other more minor things I offered 25k on it which I felt was fair with the needs the car had and what ever suprises were lurking I didn't feel it was a steal I was a little on the fence about it even at 25k but I got turned down and the car sold a little while longer for 28k so there are people out there putting out good money for 308's.
     
  3. Dino944

    Dino944 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2007
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    Hi Rob,

    I'm familiar with some people saying the GTBs are more rigid and a better driving experience. I've also met people that like the open are experience of a GTS and would would not want the coupe.

    Yes, following the basic theory of supply and demand, if selling a GTB and GTS in comparable condition the GTB (of which there are fewer) should sell for more. But it has not worked that way in the real world. Just look at sales figures of comparable cars.

    In the real world its all about condition and maintenance. Better original cars sell for more money be it a GTB or a GTS. Some cars are drivers, some cars are much better than driver condition, some cars are low mileage and in exceptional condition, and then some cars have been lost to accidents or are in such bad shape that they aren't worth buying. There are only a finite amount of cars in each catagory. People buying drivers and people buying the exceptional low mileage cars aren't competing for the same vehicles.

    I think its easier to see or understand a big premium on low mileage car in exceptional condition than it is to determine what kind of premium someone would pay for a GTB with 40,000 miles over a GTS with 40,000 miles. Granted someone can ask $70,000 for an ultra low mileage garage queen maybe they won't get it, maybe they will. But what would a person with a 40,000 mile GTB ask over an similar condition GTS... $2,000, $4,000, $6,000? Just asking. Maybe they could try to get $2,000 but they have to have the right buyer or the person might go wiith the GTS. I doubt they'd see $5,000 + for an average condition GTB.

    Best regards,
    Dino
     
  4. Dino944

    Dino944 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2007
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    +1

    As I said in another post. "In the real world its all about condition and maintenance. Better original cars sell for more money be it a GTB or a GTS."
     
  5. h2oskier

    h2oskier F1 Veteran

    Oct 1, 2006
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    But those are true collectibles. 73 RS will cost for a perfect example 350-500k. A 275gtb more. That wasn't my point on the comparison to the newer cars.

    I'm just reading about these 3x8 cars and learning. Obviously not fast enough for Red3555gtb. I've possibly angered him

    I'm only stating what I read. 3x8's it appear are selling in the 60's in France and a couple here for $60k but I see lots for less. People don't post many sell prices just asking. Most owners won't even tell what they did sell for. So these cars are moving targets. I also don't know the diff between the 328gts gtb etc other than the targa top vs hard top. Is there other differences? I know that the gts commands a bit more in 355 bodies.

    It seems tho you hardcore 3x8 guys might not like the drive of the gts. At least by some posts.

    So Red3555 to answer your question I only know what I read. Nothing else. I read a post by an extremely happy seller with his 328 fetching $31k at an auction and walking away pleased.

    Please sir tell me why the cars listed for double this and more are not a touch out of the ballpark. Why with Dan's (I believe was his name) car being a well maintained and documented car is his worth so much less?

    Yes you can have fun in a 40hp car that tops out at 45 mph but that wasn't my point when I mentioned the 355>328 and the 360>355. My point was these cars are now very accessible price wise to millions of people and car enthusiasts will pick the greatest bang for the buck 9 of 10 times. It's the way Americans think. So yes a possible collecter will choose a 308 over a 360 if he wants it in his Stable but most car lovers will pick the 75k 360 over the 75k 328.

    I'm a realist not a know it all.
    I know how to satisfy my wife
    And that's all I truly care to know to extremes.

    So gear down turbo (red3555gtb) and don't get your panties in a bunch.
     
  6. Dino944

    Dino944 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2007
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    This is a great place to learn about Ferraris. However, if you are just learning and you haven't really followed the market for several years, perhaps making statements such as "The guys asking 70k are dreaming and the guys paying remotely close are foolish" are a premature or a bit inaccurate. Basing your statement on someone selling a car with 59,000 miles is not indicative of the value of all 328s. The actual seller said, " I didn't realize the mileage penalty on the value because the car was so nice. " In reality a lot of people have an aversion to buying a Ferrari with over 50,000 miles on it, especially when there is a good selection of cars with 30,000-40,000. In addition, the people that would consider a 328 with 59,000 miles are generally not considering a low mileage 328, nor are they looking to spend what one would cost. In addition, I know people that specifically sought out the best lowest mileage 328s they could find weren't looking for a driver, they and they were willing to spend more to get one that looked as close to new as possible. There can be really nicely maintained 328s with higher mileage but there are still going to be distinct differences in condition.

    The cars I mentioned are as you say "true collectibles," now. At one point they were used cars that depreciated. But even if one compares say what you refer to as true collectibles, a 1973 365GTB/4 Daytona coupe is worth a fraction of what a 1967 275GTB/4 is worth, even though the Daytona is faster.

    As for differences between the 328GTS and GTB, besides the targa roof, the interior headliner shape is a little different due to the interior dome light, the rear quarter window louvres/gas cap covers. Those cover most of the appearance differences. Mechanically they are the same.

    As for your saying, "...these cars are now very accessible price wise to millions of people and car enthusiasts will pick the greatest bang for the buck 9 of 10 times." Bang for the buck is true with some buyers, but not with others. There have even been a few 328 Fchatters that traded their 328s for 348s and 355s when those cars came out, only to regret it and go back to 328s. I think the 355 is an amazing car, its much quicker than a 328 and IMHO better looking than a 360 or 430. In fact we almost traded our 328 for one when the 355s were new. Luckily, we didn't. Now years later we know the 355 has a reputation for being much more costly to maintain, and it has some rather pricey problem areas such as its headers and valve guides. As 355 & 360 values have fallen, some will not recieve the maintenance they should have and some will have shoddy work done and corners cut...all making them even more costly for the next buyer to put in good working order. As for the 360, its a great performer but not necessarily Ferrari's best looking car, they are also known for the plastic buttons and dashboard parts turning sticky from heat (they can be replaced or maybe going with carbon fiber replacements helps), and although people say 328s aren't that rare since about 7,400 were made...360s seem common in comparison since about 18,000 were made.


    As for your statement, " I read a post by an extremely happy seller with his 328 fetching $31k at an auction and walking away pleased. Please sir tell me why the cars listed for double this and more are not a touch out of the ballpark. Why with Dan's (I believe was his name) car being a well maintained and documented car is his worth so much less?" With Ferraris and Porsches value is closely based on mileage and condition (maybe more so than many other brands). The cars that are being listed for double the amount or more will have significantly less mileage. I see tons of posts on Porsche websites and Fchat where people say, they can buy a 930 Turbo or 328GTS for $34,000 anyone spending $60,000 for one is getting ripped off. Its simply not the case. The $34,000 car and the $60,000 car are never in the same condition. But its a good thing because it allows people who want driver condition cars to own them and people that want nearly new conditon cars to own those.

    Best regards,
    Dino
     
  7. h2oskier

    h2oskier F1 Veteran

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    Thanks on the info.
    I figured almost all 3x8 cars would be close to 50k miles

    I get the lower mileage thing.
    I have watched prices for about 3 years only because I saw a white one priced in the low 30's that sold a few times over a 6 month period. I must assume it was a car with serious issues if traded so many times.

    I will continue to watch the cars to see if they eclipse the 355 and 360 cars in value.

    I am definitely out of my element here as a like the 360/430 cars. If a nice white one ever pops up I'll cue this group for value as adding one of these would be nice for my garage.
     
  8. Tifosi2011

    Tifosi2011 Formula Junior

    Apr 3, 2011
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    John
    This car that you were interested in, was it the one from Thousand Oaks, California by chance? If it was, why did you Pass on it? If you don't mind me asking?
     
  9. Dino944

    Dino944 Formula 3

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    There are still cars that have under 20,000 and cars that have under 10,000 miles if you search for them.

    If you find a white one you might get a slightly better deal on it, as white has generally been a less popular color on 3x8s. Although, I've always thought 3X8s can look quite nice in white.

    Good luck and best regards,
    Dino
     
  10. h2oskier

    h2oskier F1 Veteran

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    Wouldn't a 10k mile car this age need a complete rebuild?
     
  11. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran
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  12. Ron328

    Ron328 F1 Rookie
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    Not to beat a dead horse...but what defies the law of supply and demand is desirability. Esp. in the Ferrari world, the spyders have historically been more desirable than the coupes, which is why the former has generally commanded a slightly higher premium over the latter. But again, there are other factors to consider...
     
  13. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    h2oskier,

    Well, since I posted here two or three times, I might as well chime in again...

    Each of these car asks for an individual diagnosis; so a 10k mile car this age would not necessarly need a rebuild; could be, but depends mainly on how / when the miles have been done. I mean, if 8.500 miles have been done the first year and 1.500 during the following twenty, a rebuild could be useful.

    I happen to have bought a 1989 GTS about a year ago that had exactly 12.000 miles from new, more or less correctly certified; well, that's not 10.000 miles, but it should more or less qualify? Car is absolutely as new, the interior almost unbelievable. Belonged to a guy who collected cars and prefered looking at them than driving them, but made more or less 50 miles each month in one drive (no short drives) not to let it sleeping completely.
    He passed away, his widow sold the car with 12.000 miles on the odo.
    Brought the car to my usual Ferrari mechanic for a check-up after buying it: no leaks, engine tight, no cracked pipes, no nothing in fact (except a problem in the rear left suspension, but not due to age). Car feels and drives like new.

    As for the GTB vs GTS debate...as I have already said, I got both. Exactly the same model, the two cars are identical, having been build five weeks apart; that was indeed one of the reasons I chose the second one: being so close on the production line, I can compare between both, with a B and a S being as close as possible in specs.

    Well, I know that I won't make friends out of this, but: speaking purely about cars, i.e road holding, performance, etc...there is simply no question, the "B" is by far the better car.
    Admittely, we are speaking about old cars, but the "B" still has the DNA of a sports car, event if its performance today are those of...well, an old sports car.
    Mainly, the "B" chassis is stiffer, and the car also a bit lighter; so the car feels tighter and sharper, especially on twisties, and especially when the curves are following in reverse: a left, a right, a left again. The "B" follows this with hardly a hiccup, whereas the "S", especially with the top off, flexes and gives you the impression after the third curve that it takes sometime for her to know exactly what she wants to do.

    I'm 52, and a driver of very modest abilities; but believe me, the difference is marked. This does'nt diminish the appeal of the GTS, because nothing beats crusing with the top off (except nowadays in winter...) and if I had to keep on one of the two, it really would be a dilemna.
    I bought the "B" first, then the "S", saying to myself: O.K, after a year's experience with both cars in the same garage, I can take THE decision and sell the one that I enjoy less; that decision is now taken, I keep both. Each one has its advantage, but speaking purely about driving experience, the "B" is the best, no question about this.
    Should you never have driven a 328, be forewarned, its not an american muscle car...its "forte" is not in muscle, it is roadholding, and in that department, the "B" is the best, no question about it.

    I use to rise rather early in spring, to have my coffee watching the sun going up, and then having a good drive one the roads in the forests before anybody takes its car out, just for the driving experience. Each time I do this, I always end up with the keys of the "B" in hand. Now, if we are considering a relaxed, end of afternoon drive, it would be the "S" top off. The best of both, isn't it?

    Best,
     
  14. h2oskier

    h2oskier F1 Veteran

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    Thanks it seems others share your same opinion of the drive as I've read this before. Thanks for all the info. I have a favorite with my Ferrari's as well and will grab the same keys 9 of 10 drives myself.

    Thanks
     
  15. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    If I ever get my car running properly again you are welcome to take it out for a spin to see what a 308 is about. I'm not far away.
     
  16. h2oskier

    h2oskier F1 Veteran

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    Cool
    Why isn't it going?
    Just take Jedis
     
  17. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    Cause I'm slow and cheap..err I mean frugal.. and doing the work myself when I have spare time which I never seem to have enough of. Just hasn't been a priority but I have been back to work on it lately. Just need to sort out a few more things and it should be back in shape. If not I might be willing to sell it to you cheap ;) Of course it's red not white!!
     
  18. rob

    rob F1 Rookie

    May 22, 2002
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    No it was here in Vt. I didn't pass on it I offered 25k but my offer was turned down.
     

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