What's needed to twin turbo a 430?

It seems unlikely that this has not already been answered at length in the 360/430 section - worth taking a look there

For example http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/313413-twin-turbo-f-430-scuderia-underground-racing.html

 

Why not just buy the 458 as a lot cheaper in the long run.

 

D3 performance kit:

The Stage I kit features:

- Precision Dual Ball Bearing Turbochargers
- D3PE Water-to-Air Intercooler System
- D3PE F430 304 Stainless Steel Race Exhaust Manifolds
- D3PE Twin Crossover 304 Stainless - Steel V-Band Exhaust System with - Stainless Steel Tips
- Tial Atmospheric Blow-off-valve and Wastegate Systems
- D3PE Custom ECU Upgrade and Calibration
- D3PE Atmospheric Catch Can and Crank Case Ventilation System with Race Spec Braided Lines
- D3PE Hi-Temp Thermal Protection, Available in Wrinkle Satin Black or Polished


The Stage II Kit features:

- D3PE Upgraded Forged 4.3L Engine (core required)
- D3PE 1000+ Horsepower Axle Upgrade
- D3PE Kevlar Clutch
- Upgraded D3PE Stage II Precision Dual Ball Bearing Turbochargers
- D3PE Water-to-Air Intercooler System
- D3PE F430 304 Stainless Steel Race Exhaust Manifolds
- D3PE Twin Crossover 304 Stainless - Steel V-Band Exhaust System with - Stainless Steel Tips
- Tial Atmospheric Blow-off-valve and Wastegate Systems
- D3PE Custom ECU Upgrade and Calibration
- D3PE Atmospheric Catch Can and Crank Case Ventilation System with Race Spec Braided Lines
- D3PE Hi-Temp Thermal Protection, Available in Wrinkle Satin Black or Polished

The Stage I kit will be good for 700-750 horsepower depending on Octane, the Stage II kit will be whatever power level the customer would like up to 1000+.

 

I'm not a huge fan of twin turbo's on either the 360 or F430. They simply generate way to much heat into the engine bay and unless you do a lexan vented/louvered lid (F40 style) to dissipate the heat you going to cook many sensors and wiring in the engine bay.

Also to do turbo's properly with decent levels of boost you really need to drop the CR (compression ratio) to prevent detonation, usually done by fitting a new head gasket and possibly new forged pistons too to help with reliability. This is what Koenig did. Going this route will also lower the torque and power at lower rpm's too so only when its on boost will you gain the power, normally over 3.5k rpm, plus it will very likely lower the max rpm. There are not only just the issues of heat to manage (which are a lot easier to manage on a front engined car vs mid engine), the Koenig twin turbo kit I once owned for the 360 added over 100kg's with all the piping, new forged pistons, large intercoolers and so forth.

Ferrari did a very intelligent torque management system on the 488 which makes the car feel more like a NA than a turbo, you simply won't get close to this with old school turbo's and boost.

On paper at least I personally prefer Twin Supercharging over turbo's, not only is it much more progressive, so less stresses on the engine it weigh's much less too. You won't ofcourse get that slug of power like turbo's since the power will build up but you could easily get +50% more power without opening up the engine internals or worrying as much about heat management.

 

You should look info appropriate software and tuning too. I don't have any confidence tuners can get this right. Good chance they will blow your motor. Good luck.

 

Why Jerry rig a 430 with an engine thats not meant for turbos just to say you have twin turbo Ferrari. If you want a twin turbo Ferrari, then Buy a Twin turbo Ferrari. Ferrari makes a twin turbo called a 488. Check it out, its pretty cool.

 

Adding turbos to a car is quite expensive (even more so when adding them to a Ferrari) you are into a large amount of custom exhaust work, custom mounting brackets for the turbos, custom plumbing for oil and cooling, mounting and installing intercoolers, larger injectors and possibly larger fuel pumps to deliver more fuel volume, ecu programming on a dyno, custom air boxes. If you really want the thing to work correctly with any longevity, you should be opening the engine and lowering the compression ratio.

Once that's all done, now you have to get the heat out of the engine bay. Not an easy or cheap thing to do.

 

There isn't a great deal of headroom in the injectors: it comes out around 550bhp.

A friend gave me the specs:
Early 430 = 389 cc 14.5 ohm
Later 430 = 373 cc 12 ohm

I'm in the process of planning a large capacity N/A build with a 600 bhp (flywheel) @9k RPM target, so there are N/A options out there.

 

When you read what others say about the size of this mod, including dropping the CP ratio etc i still would go the 458 route. The project needs the bottom end to be able to take the added power without failing.

 

If you already know the guy that builds them why ask here I wonder?

Either way it won't be a cheap proposition. Going via underground racing or others that have done it you'll spend 50K.

Doing it your own way, provided you don't run into any complications that others have already figured out, will be a little cheaper but not by much.

GTX3076 x2 = 5K
set of exhaust manifolds = 5K minimum
decent intercooler, proper piping another 4K
Proper ECU, install, mapping 6-10K
Fueling 4K
Clutch 2-3K
Engine modifications ??? all depends how much needs doing
time to install? You'll be charged through the nose, easily another 10K at bare minimum.

You'll be looking at 50K bare minimum.

 

@ what fuel pressure is the factory rail running on the F430? Makes a significant difference to what you can get through them...

On the 360 its much higher than typical applications of the injectors in other applications which obviously increases potential power output. Think theoretical peak (with a duty cycle not exceeding 80%) from memory was about 440hp.

 

I think your in luck here, since there are twin fuel tanks so each bank is treated to its own pump with obviously reduces in half the loading. I have never heard of anyone replacing the fuel pumps due to maxing them out, only the injectors....

 

They won't get it right. If they could it would already be done by now and you wouldn't have to be asking questions here. Just because Underground has has it right for other vehicles doesn't mean they can get it right for the F430.

I see a gang load of Gallardos with twin turbo upgrades running very well. It's a nice fit. The Gallardos are AWD and a bit heavy to begin with and have a bigger 10 cylinder motor to work with.

Let me ask you this. You ever see a twin turbo 360? I have not. Look at how old that car is. Considering this is a nice car which simply lacks horsepower in this day and age this would be a prime candidate car to go forced induction but yet you don't see any of them out there.

There is like one YouTube video out there related to a twin turbo F430 and I believe it's by Underground but it's a promo video doing a few mini runs against a 458 I believe. That's it. Never seen anything about that same vehicle or another vehicle.

But hey don't let me discourage you. Feel free to prove me wrong. I've been waiting for years for somebody to get it right. Good luck with it.

 

I am confused... I have seen twin turbo 360, and 430 and even a Scud, do a search and they pop up on threads. Actually a couple of local members own(ed) a Scud TT and 430 TT convertible, both built by UR a few years ago. What's so unique about the 430 engine that "they can't get it right", what does that mean anyway?

 

If Eurocharged will be tuning yours and they tuned the one Underground built they would be the ones to talk to about fuel system upgrades.

 

I have a 360 with the bolt on kit from Boost Logic and while the car was the test dummy for the kit's design , they got it right and decided that a stand alone fuel management system was not needed unless you wanted to build the motor for high boost . They just added 750cc injectors for the little additional fuel....and of course tuned for it .

Don't listen to all the negative feedback and go for it !

It's your car and you do what you want to it !

 

I dunno I just feel ferraris are not meant to be turbocharged lol...for the old models at least. Seems like there is enough problems with normal aspiration all the way up to 458, the torque from the turbo will certainly break things. The lambo/R8 with the audi v10 engine would be the one to do supercharged or turbocharged, that engine needs no work for anything under 850hp.