What’s the best engineered Ferrari? The engineers dilemma

So being as reliable as the weather is ok as long as its fast.

Got it

You should apply at Ferrari. Not only would you fit right in but they can really use someone who can say that with conviction.

 

The question was about quality of engineering. At the very least a good engineer will blend required qualities. Not sacrifice all to get one unless the one quality is all important. If going fast was the one most important that others were sacrificed the Ferrari hybrids are an abject failure.

 

That was more or less my point. If we are going to argue what is or isn't good engineering, we have to establish what metrics we are using to use to compare the cars. Otherwise most of the people replying will just say whatever car they own.

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Are the Hybrids showing some serious issues?

 

Just as relevant as discussing car design over 7 decades

 

Any solid proof of that, compared to other hybrid supercars?

 

Conversation was never limited to hybrids. You selected a Ferrari hybrid as an example of the best engineered Ferrari.

Changing parameters when losing a debate. Such a common and dishonest ploy.

 

Oh man, this question is like asking what's the best song? I'll try my best.

When you say 'engineered,' I assume you mean best designed.

I have to say the newer ones without any additional context. We will know 10-20 years from now if you add reliability.

This generally applies across the board; now the older cars (Enzo Era) have some crazy stuff I've seen that I was amazed Ferrari got away with - the relatively simple engines vs the more complex intermediate era models can easily judged superior if ease of maintenance (assuming you have the proper parts) is part of what it means to be 'better engineered.' I drool and skip a heartbeat when I see the exquisite clarity of an older Ferrari engine bay vs. some of the demon-spawned rat's nests that make up a modern Ferrari engine bay.

As you can surmise, best-engineered means to me; owner doable maintenance and repairs, which makes the older cars 'better' in that aspect.

 

From an engineers perspective:

1. A well engineered device is a device that fulfills or surpases all requirements set by the project owner.
2. Requirements may include functional, performance and safety criteria etc. A certain level of reliabilty is often a requirement; cost is always a requirement.
   
3. More ambitious requirements are harder to reach, so I would suggest that the best engineereed car is the car which fulfilled the most stringent requirements (relative to the time period it was built in).
4. Since the requirements are typically not known to the public it is impossible to judge how well engineered a car is. This is particularly true for road cars, where time and cost to manufacture typically play a huge role. For race cars it might be a bit easier, because their requirements are more or less known.

 

I say the 328. The most recognizable Ferrari ever built. Simple, basic, manual, engine major and clutch replacement in-situ......could go on

 

Nothing dishonest about it. You said that Ferrari and hybrids is a joke, to which I replied.
Then, let's go again. Do you believe that non-hybrid Ferraris break down more than the equivalent Lamborghinis or McLarens?

 

I would have to assume hybrid cars are going to have more issues when we get into the very high performance category. They can be well engineered, but with that being said there are more chances that the drive trains are going to have issues, mechanically and electrically. I believe Ferraris that have been built with you might say somewhat simplicity, like the machines we all love from the 70s , 80 s , 90s and early 2000s are going to be the best engineered. This is aside from the transmission issues with the Testarossa , and the interiors coming unglued with various models, as well as that initial POS 355 and its ridiculous problems. I cant even imagine the ******** owners are going to have with these hybrids, good grief . The 328 should have always been Ferraris benchmark when it came to engineering a great Ferrari , its really that simple.

Big G

 

To be honest Ferrari is far from reliability and engineering solutions of PORSCHE 911.
My rating is
575m, 328, 335M, 612.
Hybrid cars not reliable by default.
4WD models not reliable by default, because PTU system is terrible.
DCT 7DCL750 gearbox is better than on mercedes gt, but still slowly and short clutch.

 

I have a 296 GTB on order. Your comments concern me. Ferrari has had plenty of experience at this point with hybrids. Do you think there is something fundamentally wrong with all of them, including the 296? You sound informed so please provide some more info/details/links? I am not trying to be argumentative, I am simply trying to become an educated consumer… Thanks

 

plenty of info in here if you look at the 296/sf90 sub forums where people have reported their faults

 

All filled EV and hybrid cars are taking and are going to take a huge dump in value. It’s already happened and is going to get much worse due to reliability and warranty issues with batteries. Especially after the 7-10 yr factory coverage of them with all makes us over. Tesla recently dropped 40k off price of theirs (from 120k to 80k) and it affected all others as well. My 14k mile, 2021 Audi e-tron Sportback with a sticker of 85k was worth about 65k in June. It’s now worth about 38-43k in just a few months. HUGE % drop. I can’t imagine it not affecting hybrid Ferraris and other hybrid exotics the same way… I mean it already has. As issues increase and reliability and desirability decrease, the values do as well.

I actually love the EV as a daily driver to and from work etc and I never thought I would. It’s perfect and maintenance/gas free. But I don’t think I’d ever want a supercar with any form of electric. And I believe most will feel the same as the ‘faith in the fad’ kinda goes away…. I even predict we will see fully ICE vehicles return.


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Yes, SF90 FERRARI had problem with battery dead, 80% customers had this problem

 

As mentioned earlier, engineers measure success on fulfilling a specification. If the product meets or exceeds the required specs, then an engineer would deem it a success. When it comes to cars, there are certain specs around quality that the general public expect. Little hard to define but we all expect our cars to start every time and not have failures that require trips to the dealer. The idea of no or few trips to the dealer has changed over time. It used be expected that a new car would require some "adjustments" by the dealer. However, starting in the 80s, the Japanese wrote the book on automotive quality and set a new standard of what owners should expect.

So how does this relate to Ferrari? We can judge the cars on performance (ie how well the cars perform relative to other cars). However, quality issues will always bring into question the engineering. Pushing the envelope in performance will always run the risk of comprising quality. Truly great engineering will deliver both. Which Ferrari does that? Hell if I know.