What's the deal with maranelloman?

Ryan, don't get your, uh, well, whatevers in a wad.

Actually, I'm trying to help you out. That is, I don't think that the rules are all that clear, except for the extreme cases. Point is why should you and the rest of the moderators have to carry this monkey on your back? If the rule is no name calling, then that's the rule, period. If the rule is that you can engage in certain kinds of name calling, but not others, this is not a rule. It is is a hammer.

What should be done? The moderator's forum should be open to all subscribers so that we can get a feel for where the lines in the sand are drawn. Currently, the whole banning thing smacks of a back room blackball meeting.

Again, I find the Dave and Art show boring. I only read their posts when it involves racing. I suspect that many others do likewise.

However, I am sensitive to censorship issues after the Euros tried to shut down P&R during the last election. Even though nobody held a gun to their head to read the P&R posts, they still raised holy hell when they didn't like what they read. Conversely, I have put one user on ignore because I got tried of reading his wacko conspiracy theories on just about everything. But, you don't see me crying that P&R should be shut down.

It's kinda of funny. The Euros wanted to banish P&R because most of us were too conservative for their tastes. Art (and Dave M), while sharing their views, jumped into the race. Personally, I think that all these guys (Who knows? Maybe some are actually girls!) are big boys who can take it. Thus, I don't see the point of banning Art for a while and then banning Dave for a while. If their behavior is over the line, ban em permanently. If not, just forget about it.

Dale

 

I was going to suggest as Uro did. Or, these two are on everyone's ignore list from the get go. Its a wilful choice to listen to their discussions back and forth by removing their names from the list. How many people actually utilize their ignore list ? A small percentage by those who have been here long enough to know who rubs them the wrong way.

Dave and Art have been offending each other for years. Their insults have more effect on the moderators followed by the users than they do each other.

Its not that hard to keep score any time someone else "has it out" with someone on Rob'***** list. Nominate a moderator who will act as your thought police and keep the bans flowing if someone insults someone else. Thats their only job, no other.

Maybe the community will shape up to be the model community that you would like to have but I think will be impossible to achieve as long as there is off topic discussion. Permanently banning Allan didn't remove the problem. You can permanently ban everyone on that list and the problem will still remain. The problem isn't the size of the community.

Its the off topic discussion. A community without this is almost utterly boring. I'm a part of one. There are 30,000+ members and the pub section for all off topic discussion gets a couple threads a day with less than 10 responses to each unless its a rare thread that gets more, and guns, politics, race, and religion are all banned subjects. ANY insults no matter how well deserved are immediately met with a stearn warning once, twice, and then your gone. Period. Its incredibly civil, its all on topic, it can be funny from time to time. Its not a site where you rack up your post count or go to unwind.

If you want the community to be like this, its the only way to do it. I have a thousand technical on topic posts there and 2,600 off topic posts here. Is it really giving the community what we want, or what you want?

Sunny

P.S. Dale is on the money, as usual. If you start perm banning those who don't fit the community vision, eventually, you mods won't have much of a job to do other than sit and wait for someone to cross the line. *YAWN*

 

Did you ever check out www.dysfunctionalchat.com ? Half the banned user list here and trouble makers from other boards signed on to roast each other. Trouble didn't spread from here to other forums, it found you instead.

It ain't your bag, but the only true way to get a feel for how another community operates is to take a vacation, let the mods keep things status quo, and sign up yourself for a while and see how the law of the land is played out there and what works/what doesn't. You've got the best technical/on topic and best off topic discussions that can be found anywhere. There will always be trouble and it doesn't look like the community is shrinking.

Sunny

 

I personaly just ignore it but apart from the p&r section i personally dont really see any attacks between them or others only the occasionaly snippy remark but not enough to affect a thread

 

I think the mods do an excellent job. I may completely diasgree with their points of view, but they do a pretty good job of balancing each other out, and not jumping on the "banned" wagon.

No system is perfect, this one works well.

Although I do like the new designation "In time out" instead of say "temporary ban".

 

I do think these guys chase each other from thread to thread, and topic to topic.

I frankly find their sophomoric behavior to be just that, and nothing more. I must say the constant drone of "owned" and "libel" (or slander, I can't keep those straight) gets to be a little boring, and the baiting with "You're a tax evader" or "Do you still beat your wife" or, "what branch of the service did you serve in" wandering into discussions about racing or car parts could get to be a pain.

And yes, both of therse guys beat the drums for their "fans, compatriots, minion or whatever" who do sometimes get a little over exuberant in their posts.

I just wish we could leave all the nasty **** out of here, and talk politics with a civil tongue. But, that ain't gonna happen.

Dave M.

 

I frequent many Boards. Problem childs are usually nipped in the bud at the first sign of aggression. It is only natural for someone to strike back when provoked and it only escalates. It is the Mod's job to step in and prevent this from happening - out in the open for all to see. I do not see this happening on this site. The Mods should set the tone. Once everyone knows the running rules, it will somewhat police itself. Someone brought up the biz angle - good point. The management needs to set the expectations of the employees, with good consistant feedback. Otherwise the inmates will run the asylum.

..."out in the open for all to see." The reason I think this is not happening, and the reason for my criticism, is that the same rules do not apply to everyone. It is also the reason why there are so many questions for clarifications of the rules - or lack thereof. The howdareyouquestionmyauthority attitude of some of the Mods, when pressed for reasons behind punishment, only confirms it. If it was out in the open, they would be roasted for the obvious favoritism. The job of a Moderator is NOT easy. I am a Mod on another site. If I have to slap someone's hand, the whole board knows about it. I have nothing to hide and if I miss someone screwing up, I hear about it and I take care of it. Makes my job easy because everyone knows what to expect. And that is all I ask for here, and the reason behind my frustration. But hey, maybe my "conspiracy theory" behind what would make for a better community is not shared by you.

Some of what I have gathered on other disputes/warnings/bans seems to be a carryover of hatred from the P&R Forum. IMHO, what the heck does that have to do with F-cars anyway? If that is the root of even 10% of the problems - get rid of it.

THere are a lot of really cool nice people on this site, and it only takes a few to screw it up.
Jim

 

I think so. Its the one of the only options I see to preserving what we're allowed to currently get away with before we cross the line without having the hammer drop down on us. Off topic will wane for a while, the flame board will florish, both will strike a balance and Rob can divide and conquer the messy off topic discussion groups.

I think of it like player vs player in online games. You can elect to go PVP while the others enjoy the non-confrontational (no insult, politically correct off topic) or they can choose to dish it out as long as they can take it in there. Sounds fun!

 

I was in court today, and didn't get a chance to read this thread after about 7am, but let me put in my .02 worth:

About 1 2 months ago, I decided I didn't want to listen to Dave anymore, and put him on my ignore list. Stopped mentioning him, left him alone. I noticed, because people would quote him, that he was continuing his normal course of behavior, and started responsing, but only to those quotes about me that I got to see in other's posts.

I made a legitimate attempt to ignore him, Mike550 and Rivee, but apparently their behavior was such that they couldn't let it go.

Frankly, I'm sick of their childish behavior, and they got me into that same mode, i.e., I posted that modified picture of Rivee (which was pretty funny, but in terrible taste, it was indeed done by someone that he considers a friend, because I didn't have the ability to modify the picture). So the point is, I'll be more than willing to ignore them, if they'll do the same. I suspect they don't have it in them, but hope springs eternal.

Art

 

You'd have no problem with a competition then, the stakes being, whomever breaks the truce gets the bruce, I mean, boot. Loser is banned, permanently.

That should keep the peace quite nicely, they couldn't stand loosing to you and you think you have the will power. How about it? I doubt Rob would go for it.

Once someone starts swinging the very big stick, people learn to get out of the way real fast from that person. Unfortunately, no one like that exists yet. Time will tell.

 

did all of this start offline? I come hear to give me brain a rest when i have to do other things on the computer, to me i cant even imagine caring enough to have even a small rivalry with somebody on another computer let alone be enemys

 

Sure. The mysterious photoshopper on the grassy nole conspiracy.

 

I havent seen it so if it does id say it is negligible

 

No.

Remember, Fchat is my lifeline back to the free world. I miss the level of free speach, bashing included.

CNN, MSNBC goes black every time there is something mentioned about Hong Kong or Taiwan. Please don't follow that route for dealing with this...

 

Some regional areas are hot spots due to previous fighting in the Off Topic areas. Once in a while in General Discussion. Most of it stays somewhere in Off Topic, P&R, and Cars and Motorcycles.

 

One uses arguments, one uses insults

 

Since I am a new user I didn't know anything about the fued. Like many have said, I don't go to p&r and probably never will because that's not why I visit this site. I found out a long time ago that people don't want to talk politics with me. I'm one of those right wing, gun lovin, Texans.

 

To answer your question Rob I'd say no it does not spread.

 

I actually think the P & R thread does a pretty good job of containing the venom and not letting it leak into the other fora. For example, if you are in the mood to bash the Europeans, or the French in particular, why take it out on an unsuspecting new user who asked a simple question about floor mats or license plate frames? Chances are, you can find any number of threads that will allow you to get your jollies off on P &R, and come back to the board a saner person. I guess this is the same theory used to justify "red light" districts in cities.
But, seriously folks, some of the absurdities of modern life should be shared; it's a fun place to discuss current events among some intelligent, some cynical, some predictable, and some downright crude people. God bless 'em all.
This place is a community to me, just as much as the little town down the street where i buy a coffee, smoke a cigarette and say "howdy" to the neighbors. I'd be real disappointed if everybody was a model citizen. Hell, i might just join a Corvette board...

 

I think the behavior of the moderators has negatively spread to the users at large. MMan and Art are, imo, a symptom, not the cause.

-after reading the thread some more-

I personally think the mods actions concerning bans and warnings are fine. Indeed this forum is very lax compared to others boards. I don't have any problem with the way the mods work. I take issue with their behavior.

I don't really take much issue with the behavior of MMan or Art, especially seeing as they both throw mud at each other. I do take issue when the moderators engage in the same behavior. Moderators arguing or debating and participating in the forum is fine, good even. Moderators who act like clowns and pretty much commit the same actions as the people that they are warning and banning is a farce. I'm lazy. I don't care enough. I'm not going to spend my time searching through the forum finding specific instances. I can only give my general perception overtime. That general perception is that many of the mods engage in the same actions that have apparently gotten MMan banned.

Solving that issue would require finding moderators who don’t engage in the behavior, definitely a hard task. I for one would never volunteer for such a job (nor am I qualified) and give credit where credit is due that for the most part this forum seems to be fair and much more lax than others are. Which is what creates the problem we have. The grey areas are very wide and people don’t really know how far they can push it.