What's the difference between Montoya and Schumacher?

MS has seven WDCs and JPM has none.

JPM at least tries to pass drivers on the track and MS doesn't.

They both have had their periods of dangerous driving

JPM is fun to watch and MS is quite boring lately

MS can't speak the truth for some reason while JPM will let you know what he thinks.

JPM can drive on a team where both pilots are "equals" MS will not.

I'm sure there are lots more comparisons. For me they both bring something to F1. I don't feel MS is as good as his 7 WDC make it seem and I don't think JPM is as bad as his zero WDC would have you believe.

Any thoughts?

 

Not another JPM debate!!
Im a MS fan, why? Because i think that JPM is a loose cannon who barely has control over his car. I mean, look at the JT incident. And he is rude and very self-centered. The one plus about him is that his wife is awesome!
Also, MS may not seem like a 7xWDC, but facts are facts, and you can't argue with facts!

 

Maybe you are confusing his driving style with his personality. Have you spent any time around Montoya or Schumacher? I had one experience this year in Montreal. Montoya is truly a family person. He was with his mother, father and brother every chance he got. At the end of the qualifying day we met up with him in the support series paddock. He was very warm, cordial and spoke with anyone who wanted. He gladly suffered all the requests for pictures and autographs. Contrary to MS who wouldn't stand around when there was a fan in the area. Yes MS is a seven time WDC but the other fact is that the one person who could have challenged him with an equal car, chose not to. The long term historians won't forget that.

 

I have actually been around Montoya. I was with him in Melbourne in 04. I was at the BMW lunch at which JPM was there. I was also there when he SWORE at everybody and when he stormed out of the tent. A spokesman had to address the lunch with an apology for his behaviour and his manners. I was sitting amongst truly respectable people, and he treated everyone like dirt. Disagree all you want. I was there and i would think badly of that person, no matter who they are.
I regards to his driving style, i think it's dangerous. He does pull some good moves, but half the time, i think its the other driver backing off knowing that they will be taken out if they fight the stupid move that JPM is pulling on them. It happened to JT in the last race.

Basically, JPM's only advantage is Scare Tactics. He scares the other driver into submission with his impossible overtaking.

His tactics belong on an R/C track.

 

Who was that?

RB is way below both JPM's and MS's level, so surely you do not mean RB (or even Irvine).

True.

MS does when he has to ... which is not much anymore, ie. starting most races from pole means nobody is infront of him. In the old days MS was the master passer.

As has Senna and many others.

Only if you consider bumping into other cars interesting ... otherwise all quite boring lately. MS used to be great to watch ... wrestling with poor cars, now Ferrari can finally make great cars ... he does not have to wrestle anymore.

Maturity will eventually reach JPM, ie. fncking your team off does not make your car go faster ... quite the opposite.

MS's very first F1 drive was for Jordan against Albereto (?, somebody very experienced anyway) and he pissed all over this guy. I think this attitude has come from watching Prost versus Senna battles ... but is there really anybody at his level. Can Ferrari handle running 2 competitive cars and 2 star drivers?, I think NOT.
I think in his Benetton days he did not have much choice, but very quickly the team formed around MS ... because it was obvious that he was/is special.

I do agree with this though, but this is because all the other drivers and teams suck. The only driver so far that has been able to stand up to MS was Hakenin and when we do get a good enough driver like Kimi ... his car sucks.

Just like Mike Doohan, for years they will be saying MS had it easy. Ferrari could help him by sacking RB and putting in Kimi or Alonso or even Mark Weber but Ferrari won't because they want the Championships to sell road cars (note how Ferrari now race for the wrong reasons ... once upon a time racing for racing sake was what Ferrari F1 was all about, now it is just another advertising arm of the Ferrari brand ... )

Pete

 

Sums up F1 really dosn't it? Everybody is racing for a purpose other than to race.....

 

I said equal cars, not equal skill level.

Those were the old days. If there was no refueling MS would be on a much closer level with the other drivers. There would be no clear lap opportunities. He'd have to drive.

Agreed. MS has found a way to bind the entire Ferrari org around him.

I doubt the expense of two WDC capable drivers would be a problem for Ferrari organizationally or financially. But as you say below, they are racing for different reasons now and competition is not the main reason. Too bad; we all had something taken away as a result.

Agreed

Andy

 

its hard to pass someone when you are always in front, duh also when you are a mere few points away from a historic 7th WC, do you take excessive risk in trying to pass, come on, at least compare MS to someone who has won a title

 

I am not a big fan on how Ferrari turning more corporate minded, but I do believe it is necessary these days for any car company to survive. Back in the late 80's and early 90's, Ferrari had to decided if they were going to following the like of McLaren and Williams or they were going turn into another Team Lotus. Let's face it, the 60's and the 70's are long gone.

 

JPM is a loser . He cant admit his faults , is always someone else , the car , the track , the fuel , the tyres ....
MS Admits when he did smthg wrong.

 

and, duh, who would you suggest who is still racing and has won a title?

 

Refresh my memory, when was the last time he did that?

 

Maturity.

 

I could be wrong, but I remember reading a couple years ago that Ferrari road cars are accountable for about $50 million in sales, where when the whole IPO talk was going on the F1 racing team division was reported as being valued at about $1billion. I know their focus is to make money, but I don't see that the philosophy has changed to car sales. Heck they pull in more from Mattel & Fila for licensing than they do from car sales. With a $300 Million budget for F1, the car sales only pays for a portion. Sponsor money is huge and the as much as we all hate the laptops, surfboards, cameras, writing pens, etc... without them the F1 Team would not be possible.

I hate all of this Ferrari & Schumacher suck because they are SO GOOD discussions. I really don't think Barichello in Schumachers car would be as dominant. Irvine had his shot and BLEW IT! Yes Schumacher is Ferrari #1 driver as he would be on ANY other team. Things will change and Ferrari will be beaten by some team and it will be a sad day for me, but for right now there is no question Ferrari has the best car on the track as well as possibly the best driver ever!

MS - most victories, most championships, most points, most fastest laps, most podiums, most victories in a single season and the list goes on and on... but some of you will still say he sucks.

MS revolutionized Ferrari! In 1995 they had one race win and it was a fluke for them to win that one. They were struggling to come in third in the constructors championship. He came in and immediately made a huge impact, His first year with the team Ferrari was 2nd in the Constructors Championship and within 2 years they were battling for the top spot in the Drivers Championship. The Drivers championship was lost by less than 19 points combined for 97, 98, 99. MS first year with the team he won 3 races, from 1991-1995 Ferrari only won 2 races combined.

 

I agree, maturity and also some class. Did you see how MS congratulated Kimi after his Spa win. Last time I saw JPM on the podium he was sulking because he wasn;t first.

 

my point exactly

 

A lot. Go read a book. Your opinions are your own, as are mine. But what you stated in your 1st post are half lies. Go read a book. You said MS doesn't try to pass people. Who is he going to pass smarty pants? He is always at the front and most times in the lead. And MS can't "speak the truth"? This is rich comming from a guy with a messed up view looking to insult someone who isn't able to defend himself. You have 1 fact right, MS has 7 titles. If he is such a boring driver and doesn't pass anyone, how the bloody fuk does he have 7 titles?!
GO READ A BOOK!

I don't like JM, but I don't start threads to bash him. Go read a book.

 

JPM will most likely never be champion. He does not have the heart of a champion. Take a look at some champions that truly excelled. Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Evander Holeyfeild, Carl Lewis, Michael Phelps, Paul Hamm. Now compare those guys to JPM. He does not have the class to stand on the same stage as those guys. It takes alot more to be the greatest than it does to be very good. It takes a whole different mindset. JPM wants to be champion for vanity. He is so insecure he wants to show everyone how good he is by winning to get eveyone's approval. The human psyche is not designed to go thru the rigors of training hell, that it takes to win, only to win others approval. It is designed more for noble causes such as doing it just to be your best. This is why most great athletes are very much alike. They are usually gracious and well spoken. Nice guys. They are really out there to prove to themselves that they can be at the top of their game. They are not doing it for the fans adulation. The JPMs of the world rarley make it to the top. If they do, they never stay there. Take Maurice Green in the Olympics. He won the 100M gold in Sydney and then proclaimed he was the greatest of all time(GOAT is his tatoo). He was destined to lose the gold in Athens(which he did). He is arrogant and slef absorbed only because he is so insecure. Which was his undoing. He was racing to show everyone else how bad he was. He wasn't racing to be his best. I guess Carl Lewis is still the greatest 100m runner of all time. He's the only one to double gold in that event.
I coached elite level gymnasts for many years and champions are easy to spot. And JPM is not one of them. It really has nothing to do with who he drives for, it's just not in his soul to b great.

 

Wow. What side of the bed did WE wake up on today.

I think you're taking this a little bit too literally. You don't have to read a book to hear Schumacher say that he intentionally would prefer passing in the paddock over passing on the track. That's what he likes to do and that's fine. But just because he won 7 WDCs doesn't make him a 7 time WDC passer. There are others who earned their titles and had to work harder for it. That was the point. And if my memory serves me well he didn't rocket away from the starting line to lead the pack each race - he had people in front of him.

Regarding the truth versus fiction, again, just listen to him speak. I admire what he's accomplished and am a Ferrari fan probably much longer than half the folks on this site. But I know a disengenuous response when I hear one and MS is full of them. He's way too political for me. And if he were on the site or standing in front of me, I'd have no problem telling him that.

So please don't get too bent out of shape, and since I wasn't insulting anybody, try not to present yourself like such a moron.

Andy

 

This is spot on, great post.

 

Considering 85% of the crappy tracks offer no real overtaking oportunities, I'd have to agree with him.

Hmmm....ok so he doesn't pass......yet, he has people in front of him....and he still has won 7 WDC? You are saying he doesn't, and then you are infering that he might, and the facts say - well gee, he must have doing something out there on the track!

Do you really know how hard MS works? If I knew we had a personal friend of his on the board, I would be bothering you for an autograph. This is a rubbish remark - bullshot.

This is more a sign of maturity. Michael speaks best on the track. JPM is just the oposite - in both cases. You and JPM fail to understand that it is NOT all about you.

ooooah! that's a cheap shot, considering the obvious Montoya slant of your initial post. If you "have no problem telling" MS some of these things, you should be prepared to receive a little criticism on some incorrect statements.

I have a question for you - why the comparo to JPM? Hmmm, why not Kimi, or Alonso, or Senna, or Stewart, etc., etc. A thinly veiled attempt at a JPM rah rah session, and now you are upset because people have called you to task on some facts? If you have been a fan as long as you claim, you would not have to post such a biased question/comparison and present yourself as such a.....expert. ;0)

alanhenson - great call, great post. The only way JPM would succeed at a WDC is if it is handed to him, like his ONE Indy year.

Jim

 

Micheal Schumacher is the greatest formula 1 racing driver to ever step into an F1 car with 7 world championships to his name and 2 more to come.
JPM will never ever win a single championship and will be forgotten soon after he retires.

 

You're a tool. You basicly said MS was lucky to win 7 WDC's. And you didn't support your views by listing facts or anything for that matter. That alone makes you an a$s. You can spew crap all day about whomever you want. Don't get pi$$y when people say they are tired of reading the same thread week after week. Do a search and find all of the JM vs MS threads. Or just eat me, it's up to you. Yeah JM has been taken out of a few races because of things out of his controll. MS has lost much more over his career. Remember he doesn't have points for an entire season, he also broke his leg, which cost him another title and he has been taken out a bunch of times over the last 10 years. A laped car even took him out at Monaco. So lick it like you mean it or knock it off! That too is up to you.

 

He won't give an answer to your question, he doesn't appear to have to bits to rub together on the History of F1. And if he does post afain, it will be along the lines of: "you guys need to chill, I wasn't bad mouthing anyone". < Quote the b!tch or the Raven, I can't remember.