What's With The PPI For Old Ferraris?

While I'll agree that you or I can do out own PPI, a lot of people can't. No shame in not knowing your way around a wrench, you might have wasted your time doing something silly like being a doctor.

Even I would let an expert go over an older Ferrari just because he knows what to look for. But it might actually be harder to find a good expert than to find a good car.....

 

Well one reason a PPI can tell if the car was ever in an major accident.....I recall a guy on ebay was once trying to sell a 328 as new when the whole front end had been sheered off and then replaced....and he thought it was ok as it had been brought back to original condition with a whole new front end.....just one reason I can think of.....I am sure others have many more....The 328 looked great on the surface...but when a deep dive was done it was a 328 to walk away from.....

 

Amen Ken!

A PPI does have some merit, but so many people here think it will catch everything - and somehow make the purchase safe. A person could just have some limited knowledge about cars, that is a good PPI to start! For the serious tougher stuff (mechanical checks) then of course send it to a pro.

 

Well, Scot, next time you get sick, make an appointment with your mechanic.

 

How about a compression and leak down test? Can you do those yourself?

I like to buy my cars through my Ferrari dealer which will give me a three month warrantee. That is even better than a PPI.

 

Disclosure: I bought mine without a PPI, but it was already known by my mechanic

That said, where the PPI really comes into play is those strange quirks that are Fcar specific. Relatively minor things can be stupid expensive. For example, a 308 with both a front and rear marker lamp out on opposite sides might have a bad fusebox, or a 328 that's running fine but rich may have a bad fuel distributor, which are NLA and cost several thousand to remove and repair and replace. That's the kind of knowledge that the $400 buys you.

Another element: How does one know the car is driving 'well' or 'normal'? The first 328 I drove was mine, and I've never driven another. I had no basis for comparison, and if I went shopping for a TR tomorrow I couldn't tell a 'good' one from one that was truly right by driving it, as I don't know what 'truly right' feels like.

You sound relatively comfortable around wrenches, but many people have developed other interests and lifestyle and just like the cars. One of my friends drives a Ferrari and can't wrench at all. A PPI and a good mechanic aren't luxuries for him, they're requirements.

Your post is similar to an attorney coming on here and wondering why people go through lawyers for divorces when the paperwork is so simple.

 

You are very correct. A vintage Ferrari from the factory probably would not have perfect compression and would fail a leak down test. In addition price on a vintage Ferrari is a major concerne. If the asking price is low you better freeking jump on the deal, or the car will be long gone and worth much more money a couple of months later.

 

If you can't afford a $300-500 PPI, you probably can't afford to own a Ferrari. I own my own auto repair facilitys and I still have a PPI done before buying a car that the repair cost could cost more than I paid for the car. I agree leak downs are not fool proof, but a weak cylinder can be found with one that could still be firing fine. A weak cylinder can turn into a dead cylinder pretty fast at 8 thousand rpm.

 

I bought my 308 almost 12 years ago without a PPI. But I bought it from a car person -- he had a 12 car garage, and some of the cars had their own ROOMS inside the garage. The car looked and drove great, and had all service receipts since new.

 

The other advantage that a good PPI can give you is a comparison to how it should be. Every salesman will tell you "Oh, they all do that," and if you've only ever seen one or two of that model, who knows, maybe they do all do it.

If you take it to a mechanic who is experienced with the model and generally knowledgeable, he can tell you if in fact they do all do it. If they don't all do it, and you want to fix it, he can also give you an estimate at the same time.

 

I would put forth that many first time Ferrari buyers (like me, and yes I admit it) would not know what to look for without na PPI.....Unless you can really tell the Ferrari is top notch, why not pay the $500 for PPI.....the over all cost of a PPI is small compared to the cost of owning and maintaining a Ferrari.....I guess it would be a piece of mind for a first time purchaser? I see no wrong in it that is for sure.....

 

Ken,

Why do you think people are sending their cars to a non-Ferrari guy for a PPI? The underlying assumption of the PPI process is that the car is going to the most qualified available mechanic in the area. Obviously if you're buying one in Pigwhistle, Montana you're out of luck, but it's not as if people are using Sam's Ford Village for the inspection.

edit: regarding your added comment about people with deep pockets should be owning newer cars, never forget that there's many out there who do not like newer cars, period. Heck, there's guys who think those 308s are too new-fangled to qualify as exotics. 3x8s owners aren't all low-buck DIYers, some folks simply want to get in and drive.

 

Bravo, Ken... My GT4 is a very strong runner, with excellent service records, local ownership history, and real miles (north of 75k) - so no odometer funnies. I don't know what a PPI would tell you *today* about my car.

There's a small oil leak? Sure...1-2 drips per week - nothing even CLOSE to the 308 I saw up on a lift at a local shop recently...the underside was damn-near coated in oil.

 

A PPI didn't pick that up - F Chat police picked that up. Special credit due to Hardtop in this case...

I don't know if anyone here even took that car to PPI because we all knew about it.

 

Who has ever claimed a PPI is a warranty against future problems? The place we recommend around here explicitly states there's no warranty based on their report. The whole point of a PPI is to have an independent viewpoint on the car, one that's not affected by the red mist of desire, and to see what the seller may have forgotten to mention to the buyer.

 

Agree completely. Obviously, you need a trustworthy dealer, but WWOC qualifies, as does FMCNJ and plenty of others.

I would never buy from a private party (not even from Rijk) without a PPI, but having a qualified, trustworthy dealer in the middle is worth the premium over a private sale.

BTW, I'm loving it, Rijk. I hope you are half as happy with the spyder as I am with the 456.

Cheers, and hope to meet you in person one of these days.

 

I've test driven 11 cylinder cars which pulled well, didn't smoke, and appeared to idle reasonably well. Leak-down tests later exposed and helped diagnose the problem. But hey, you are free to proceed as you wish when purchasing your own car.

 

I have bought all kinds of cars at varying price points over the past 25 years.

Looking back, I think that the probability that I would do a PPI at the time of purchase was in inverse proportion to the market value of the car. There have been exceptions, such as Daytona Spyder where I wanted to be sure there were no major mechanical surprises as the car had been out of the country for several years. The PPI turned up a long list of minor nitpicky things, including mostly cosmetic stuff that would be important if I were to show the car someday. We had one item that was not even clear to the expert I used, but a bit of research online turned up the answers we needed.

I have bought cars at auction, where the opportunity for inspection is really limited to what you can see on the car. I have also bought cars online where even that opportunity was unavailable. Maybe I've been lucky, but all of my old car buys have turned out as well if not better than I anticipated. Old cars are relatively easy to live with. You don't need a college degree in high tech anything and most issues can be diagnosed and fixed without needing specialized help. It's usually a cable or a fuse or a leak.

PPI's are really validation for your purchase decision without providing any concrete warranty you can rely on. They are useful in identifying issues sometimes, but most often they are simply a restatement of the obvious.