Bill I never thought about liability isues. It could be. I could be wrong but I believe the goverment will require stability systems in new cars by 2012. I know they will require air pressure alert systems. Paddles shifter design between Lambo and Ferrari is interesting. The 458 7 spped F1 is a technical marvel. It has DPK so it shifts very fast an smoothly. It also eliminates the need for the driver to put the car in neutral at a stop light. So you can drive the car like a normal automatic except it is quicker and smoother. My 2010 Lambo has E gear also but the driver is still required to put the car in neutral at a light. It is only a 6 speed and is not as fast or smooth. However it does something unique that I love. If you push the "Sport" button the car dhifts faster (not Ferrari fast however) and as you slow down the throttle is poped as you downshift gears. It sounds really neat and I suspect helps the clutch life. It also makes down shift very smooth. The down shift in the Ferrari if in race mode is not smooth. It is abrupt. If you change the F car switch setting form "race" to "sport" it is better. Lee
I respectfully disagree with that statement - drumbrakes were left behind because they were more expensive to make, more failure prone, and more complex to service. Their development potential for more braking power was also too limited in the end. None of these applies to the manual/paddle box discussion. The differences there are very marginal, especially on public roads. As for the rest, yes tech wins races - but the public road is not about racing, speed is only one of the criteria there. While some racing technology will always find its way onto road cars, I am happy to leave fire retardant underwear, roll cages, six point harnesses and yes also the flappy paddle gearboxes on the track - where they belong.
It would also be a shame to lose sights such as this with the rise of the FPG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJQXlwr0H1A
I think Ferrari needs to split it's model range and make ROAD cars and cars for tracking. If you can only find the true 458 on the track then personally I think it fails as a ROAD car. Only about 10% of will ever make it on to a track and less than 1% will ever actually even get close to it's cornering limit, thus they need to design to thrill at more normal speeds and conditions. Pete
How do you expect to be "thrilled" at 55mph,sorrounded by minivans,semis and pick-up trucks? At least you can survive driving at "normal speeds in normal conditions" in a civilized car like 458 without going nuts from frustrations and have your cake anytime you take it away from "normal",be it your favorite twisty or a track you have access to. It's a perfect sports car,docile and comfy or complete animal depending on circumstances. If someone doesn't like it ,just sell the thing and stop whining about how "unexciting" it is in every thread possible.
Absent Mike Cool down friend I never get frustrated from the other cars. Civilized sounds like a code word for boring or is Comfy and docile the code words? I prefer to "whine". Yes I will dump the car fairly soon when it suits me. If you have a different point of view great lets discuss it in the forum. I will continue to alert people as I please. Have a nice day regards lee
I love the sound of my 1965 vette. It has side mufflers and is just a wounderful sound. Of course it is not a fast as modern cars not does it handle anywhere in the same sphere but I enjoy driving it. It has a 4 speed manual which shifts very good. Not as good as my Modern ZR1. The zR! has not sound under 3500 rpms which is to fast to drive legally. This is not Gms fault but the requirements placed on it by the Federal government. I wish the gov would stay out of car design. I agree with you 100% on sound. But also these cars cannot compete with modern cars Regards Lee
You never actually specified what exactly should feel "exciting" when you drive a car in daily traffic, at average speeds of 30mph (occasionally getting to 60-70) on your way to work/mall/Starbucks or whatever. Should it buck and shake?Force you to use earplugs?Make your kidneys bleed? Most Ferrari customers wanted a car that could be used daily (without beating them up) but still offering all the excitement on demand when circumstances are right. Have you driven your 458 in "anger" yet? In the end,to each their own but didn't you say in another thread that the more you drove it the more you liked it? So what exactly are you warning folks about?
I quite honestly don't know why this thread is still going. The 458 is the most exciting drive I've ever experienced. I don't want my car to be a handful at the limit I want it to grip, go, stop, and sound terrific doing it, the 458 does all that and then some. Buy a late 60's Camaro, GTO or Corvette if you want loud and crude. All comparisons to the Scud and CS are also meaningless because you should just wait for the 458 Scud if that's your cup of tea. The 458 is built to be used on a daily basis and giveyou just enough of a thrill ride that you'll want to use it that way. Mission accomplished Ferrari!
Lee, as far as I'm concerned you are absolutely entitled to continue to warn people about this awful car...just as I'm entitled to point out that your view is very much an outlier, in sharp contrast to the vast majority of views of the automotive press, professional drivers, and increasing number of Ferrari enthusiasts who have driven the vehicle. I put about 130 miles on mine over the weekend (including grocery shopping, actually!) and I can say that the vehicle is incredibly precise, composed, fast, and fun. That's an objective fact. Many dealerships now have demo cars, so if you haven't driven it, don't take my word for it (and certainly don't take Lee's), go drive it for yourself!
Leead1 Leo, JimG has put it quite eloquently for you: "I quite honestly don't know why this thread is still going. The 458 is the most exciting drive I've ever experienced. I don't want my car to be a handful at the limit I want it to grip, go, stop, and sound terrific doing it, the 458 does all that and then some. Buy a late 60's Camaro, GTO or Corvette if you want loud and crude. All comparisons to the Scud and CS are also meaningless because you should just wait for the 458 Scud if that's your cup of tea. The 458 is built to be used on a daily basis and giveyou just enough of a thrill ride that you'll want to use it that way. Mission accomplished Ferrari!"
Oh that some of us less well-heeled FChatters should have to suffer the disappointment of the underwhelming 458 Italia! Lol!
People need to drive different kind of cars before the 458. This is it. Just leave the 458 alone IF you don't like the Ferrari.
the fact that this thread is still going strong illustrates that there is obviously something wrong with the 458, unless you are on the track
The thread is answering the question that started it. From what I can see of the replies, most of the people who have driven the car think that there is not a whole lot wrong with it, and many things about it that are really rather good. There is one owner who feels that the car is not exciting enough, but then again this is from someone who is fortunate enough to have a collection of cars including some track day specials such as a Mosler and an Ariel - cars that many would find a touch impractical for much of their driving, exciting as they may be. The only thing that I found wrong with the car that I drove was the owner - it wasn't mine!
Mark Yes I did say the more I drive it the more I like it. I also like the cars sound and exterior design. What I miss is the steering does not feel as direct as past models. It just feels lose compared to other older models. The car has a soft and comfy ride compared to older models and That is okay with me. Most modern sport cars do this today. The older corvettes, firebirds and comaros while eciting to drive beat you to death. I still own a few of those but I like the newer concept. If they tightened up the steering that would improve it alot in my view. Most cars today have the power steering adjust automatically as the speed increases. It has more power steering at slow apeeds and less as the mph increases. Today it is bearly noticable but beneficial in modern cars. This would solve the problem another poster mentioned about wide steering lock to lock. I am not sure ferrari does that.I have not seen that problem with the 458. I am going to the dealer soon to drive the F40 he has coming in for me to drive. I may have trouble getting into it but I am hopeful. After that I plan at looking at a BMW M3. I had one of the early ones in the day and it was marvelous Then I will decide what to do. I went to the Audi dealer to drive the Audi 8. This is the car with the v 10 detuned Lambo engine. They did not have one. That was in Orlando. I will go up to Ocala for the BMW they have Porsche and Audi and a few others for me to try. I also wish they would still offer a manual. No I have not driven it in anger or on the track. I have driven it agressively. I ahould do that again and see if the steering tighens up. Regards Lee
I think the issue is more about modern sports cars' capabilities versus the realities of our driving situations. The 1980s was probably the end of really usable performance gains for any kind of driving on public roads, with decent power, ABS and low profile tires. It's not only a Ferrari issue. Any of the AMG Mercs offered in the U.S. are pretty much a waste, other than bragging rights, IMHO. It's just where cars are right now, not much to improve that really matters. They can deliver the smooth ride, effortless steering, etc. while turning in impressive performance numbers. So, we're not going back. As long as there are guys with money to burn, and an obsession with new cars, we will continue to get cars that push the envelope beyond anything we need. Nothing inherently wrong with that, because the classics are always around for those who need to work up a sweat, get wind-whipped and go deaf while driving.
Agreed. Most drivers would have just as much fun sliding around a turn at 0.7 Gs in an MGB at leagal speeds as they can have going through any turn off a race track in any of the moder sports/superCars.
Problem is: to achieve this you need to build a VEEERY slow car for todays standards. And a Ferrari, a car with Formula 1 technology and 200.000 $ worth can´t be slow. The only solution for the problem you mention is buying a new Daihatsu Copen or (my favourite) buying an old Ferrari. I agree that modern cars have too much speed, but making an extreme, skittish, unconfortable car on purpose just for the fun is not reasonable. You can´t change times.
I have 2,500 miles on my 458 since oct 31st in all kinds of conditions and no other car in the world even comes close to comparison. The infinite torque compares to tesla The ride rivals a mercedes on the road and a scud on the track The looks. Wow. The looks. Everyone loves the curves and lines. The interior is better than BMW, mercedes, Lexus, etc... The engine note is better than porche, lamb, r8, viper, vette combined Damn I love this car!!!!! I cannot even comprehend anyone driving it without a big smile glued to there face.
Jon what you and Mitch post is the core issue. I would also add the federal Gov. has tied the hands of the car companies design engineers. This has made the cars sterile as one poster put it. The only aspect of your coments I would argue about is the sound of the Lambo and the ferrari. I think they are both different and wonderful. My ZR1 has only federalized sound and is less exciting to drive than the car deserves. It handles like the 458 which is a data point to your opinion Great posts Lee
