Wheel lug socket

There's a lot of talk about how few combinations of anti-theft wheel bolts there actually are, which is true for all of the car manufacturers who used anti-theft wheel bolts, and not just Ferrari.

Originally though, the thinking was that there were enough combinations to make the average wheel thief not bother trying to steal wheels with these types of wheel bolts fitted as they'd have to lug around @ 20 different socket attachments in order to ensure they had the correct attachment to get the wheels off (and that would be @ 20 attachments for each manufacturer. So if they're out stealing wheels from Ferrari's, Porsche's or BMW's, suddenly they need 60 socket attachments).

Not only is that a shed load of weight to be lugging around with you, it greatly increases the time required to steal the wheels, increasing the risk of getting caught.

Whilst it would still be worth it for some determined wheel thieves, for most it would just be far too much hassle!

 

Great! But you could have taken a ride to a dealer

One pic at a time is an iPhone/ iPad limitation as the pics are named "image"

 

This happened long before your lug nut problem, it began the day you decided to buy a Ferrari

 

Doesn't this suggest (again) that only one security stud per wheel is necessary? The rest should be standard bolts. The 2 extra caps are a nicety.

 

Just shows you how much Ferrari dealers actually know about these things. I suspected as much but felt it necessary to relay the information I was told. Glad it worked out in you favor. Nice that they give you some extra caps. Been better if they gave you an extra key to put somewhere safe (where you would forget it).

Good to find the truth. Now, send the key off the Dave Rocks and have him make a copy. Then you can sell the kit and recoup you $200.

I have to get back the to beach and work on my tan.

 

Car owner: "I bough this car with anti-theft Ferrari studs but I can not find the key. Do you have one I could use to remove them?"

Ferrari Service manager: "Those are a specialty item. We don't have spare keys. You'll have to but the entire set. Unfortunately we don't have any in stock so we would have to order it from Ferrari. It will take 3 to 6 months."

 

You will probably find the original key now.

 

That's a great looking box though

 

You know I find this so frustrating with Ferrari to not support their customer base. For what these cars cost new and what the older ones are worth you would think they would have some customer support. I have mentioned here before the commitment that Porsche has for their older cars, if only Ferrari could do the same. One of my cars is a 964 and it is amazing some of the trim items they have re-released (example, the rear tail lights and large reflector that goes across the back that fade out and crack). Porsche in the past few weeks announced they have worked their latest deal with Pirelli and Michelin to produce tires NLA for the older cars up to the 2005 model year (hint, there are sizes that are needed on older Ferraris).

 

Absolutely agreed. My opinion of Ferrari today would be *completely* different if they cared about the owners of the cars that built their legacy. A "Heritage Center" (or whatever Ferrari would choose to call it) could be a nice additional revenue stream for them since Ferrari parts aren't exactly cheap. Too busy trying to make Ferrari into a "luxury brand", I guess.

On top of the fact that they ignore the need for replacement parts, they also force the takedown of independent web sites such as the one that hosted manuals and repair info. It seems one owns an older Ferrari in spite of Maranello, instead of with the support of Maranello.

 

The cost associated with the manufacture and inventory of replacement parts makes it a bad business model for them to do. No different than any other manufacture except with high volume manufactures, spares are made in higher volumes and tend to be more available for that reason. I would not associate this with them not caring. And, their subs are not going to hold onto tooling forever in hopes that replacement orders come through 20 year from the initial production data. So, creating the tooling all over to sell a few spares just does not make good business sense - hence the reason aftermarket companies exist

Regarding the manuals, that's a copyright issue. They do have a online site (for a price) to access the manuals:

https://www.ferraritechinfo.com/index.cfm?event=serviceliterature

 

Dave, if aftermarket companies can make a profit selling replacement parts then Ferrari could certainly profit as well since they typically charge a *substantial* amount more than the aftermarket. Besides, it's not *only* about profit-- it's about supporting the people who buy the cars and support the marque. Also, it's not just the older cars that suffer from parts shortages-- there have been a number of threads here regarding owners of fairly new (and even current) models not being able to get parts. Obviously you're free to think as you want about the company's support for owners of older models, but as for me I don't think they care one whit.

 

Mike, we can agree to disagree on this topic

Last I was aware, OEM's had legal requirements to make spare parts available for a certain number of years. The spirit of that law was to prevent tossing away a fairly new car because a key part would render it useless.

It's not about if Ferrari would or would not make money off those parts. It's about their business model. You may not like or agree with that model and I respect that. But, it does not mean they don't care (and they may not).

Anyone who has a business with inventory (many items too) knows the carrying cost for inventory is crazy, especially for items that move very slow.

 

Dave rocks is totally correct in what he says - It would cost Ferrari an absolute fortune to carry a stock of parts that will either sell incredibly slowly or not at all, for cars that are now 17 + years old, and even more to store all of the tooling required to make all of the individual parts "just in case".

Don't over look either the fact that Ferrari didn't make every part for the car themselves - They will have paid suppliers to manufacture them, and it's highly doubtful that those companies will keep the tooling for the parts they make forever and a day (they may even be contracted by Ferrari to destroy the tooling after the contracted run has ended).

It would be great if Ferrari did support the cars for their whole life existence, but it's simply not practical for any business to do that. Sooner or later, when the demand for the parts drops off, then they stop making them or stocking them.

It's also interesting to note the outcry at the lack of support for owners from Ferrari - But lets look at the flip side of that argument:

How many owners of 17 year old + Ferrari's support the company directly by still using the Official Ferrari Dealerships for servicing and repair work? - My monies on it being not many at all!

You either take your cars to independent Ferrari specialists, your mate who runs his own garage, or you work on them yourselves.

And How many owners of these cars go straight to their nearest Ferrari dealer first to order parts for their cars? - I suspect it's close to none!

The Ferrari dealers are seen as a last resort option because of the costs involved (although to be fair, quite a few parts from the factory can actually be cheaper than buying them from other specialists!).

So as far as Ferrari are concerned, they see that there is almost no demand for 308/328/348/355 servicing and repair by their dealers any more, and so they allow the stock of old parts to run down, until there are none left.

As for Roth and the five security bolts per wheel:

As others have mentioned, you only need one security bolt per wheel, hence why you only get 4 bolts in the set (the six caps will be Ferrari allowing for owners losing one or two caps at some time) - Five security bolts per wheel is either the result of security overkill bordering on paranoia by a previous owner, or the result of a previous clueless owner who got fleeced when they ordered their security wheel bolts.

One concern I would have is that every time the tyres need changing, your security bolt socket is going to subjected to 5 times the amount of wear per wheel than it needs to be, which could possibly result in premature wear, especially if the tyre shop are blatting away with an air gun on it! - Just a thought.

 

All of what was said above is correct regarding inventories etc. but the fact with the profit Ferrari enjoys it is a cost they could handle. If Porsche can do it with a limited production vehicle so can Ferrari. It is amazing the former hard to get wear parts that I can now source for my 1958 356A (a vehicle production run from 1956-59 counted in a few thousands) direct from the dealer. I worked closely for years with the metal casting industry (foundries and die casters) and you wouldn't believe the amount of old tooling that still exists from the OEM suppliers. I had one client that made fenders for 1950's era Mack trucks and they would get an order to run 50 units maybe every 3 years or so. I had another one that had brass patterns stored in back room for Tiffany Lamps produced in late 1800's. Where there is a will there is a way.

 

According to this site: Little Known Facts........ :

356 Production figures:

Type 356: 7,627
Type 356-A: 21,045
Type 356-B: 30,963
Type 356-C: 16,668

Total: 76,303




As I understand Ferrari's production numbers for the 348 and 355 series:

348 (All variants): 8,720
355 (All variants): 11,206

Total 348/355 production (Combined): 19,926

So there were more 356-A's made than 348 and 355' combined.

(The point being, the 348 and 355 had far more limited production runs that the 356-A did, let alone the entire 356 range!)

You mention Porsche supplying wear and tear items through their dealers, but do they also supply everything else you might need for the car's, such as interior trim pieces, heater components, switch-gear, window mechanism parts, lighting components, throttle linkages etc., etc.?

(Lets not forget also that if you own a '56~'59 Ferrari, you can actually have original quality parts re-manufactured for it by the original suppliers, through the factory via their Classiche programme - It's not cheap, but Ferrari do offer a factory service to have parts made).

You're talking here about a single supplier, who made a very limited amount of parts for a vehicle manufacturer.

How many parts do Mack trucks themselves stock for vehicles that are 17 years or older?

What people in this thread are talking about is the factory storing all of the various fixtures, tooling, moulds and whatever else the was used to make the cars originally, themselves - Even for parts that Ferrari had made by external suppliers, in order to re-manufacture those parts later on in life.

Think about your client with his tooling for the Mack truck fenders, then times that fixture by a couple of thousand (to cover just some of the parts that make up a single model car), and then times that couple of thousand fixtures by the number of models that Ferrari have ever made - Getting the picture yet?

Then they're expecting Ferrari to hold stock of Millions of parts for 17~69 year old cars - Just in case an owner might one day require them. That's simply not feasible!

How much money does he make from them? - Or are they just sitting around, taking up space, collecting dust and making no money at all?

And how many thousands of other patterns, fixtures and tooling items does he have stored, just in case someone might want one of those components one day? - I ask because that's what people here seem to be expecting Ferrari to do.

 

Phill made my point with the post above

As a small company (my manufacturing company) we try to hold on to tooling in the hopes that parts will come around again. I'll tell you, it's a PITA. If I toss it out, the customer will order the next day and if I hold on to it, we are just eating space with a bunch of stuff that's probably not going to get used again. And we are small...

 

The purpose of my original post was simple to the OP, those wheel sockets appears to be one design and the factory and the dealers by default are not interested in providing a service of stocking what is a not an uncommon situation of a lost locking lug socket. The fact it is only one design makes the situation worse in my eyes. Phil, your statement that the Ferrari factory could not maintain the original patterns and tooling tells me you don't understand how the system works. Most of the components used in the construction of the vehicles are sourced from outside suppliers who in most cases retain the tooling for possible future use. To say it is a pain for these suppliers is a fact but it does exist, I saw them on a daily basis with my own eyes and had to deal with trying to help the client value the tooling. Tooling that will never be used again is basically worth scrap but one that may(key word) be used again is worth what it would cost to reproduce. One of the largest claims I was ever involved with pertained to a client who had his tooling warehouse destroyed by fire. The loss and resulting litigation was in the millions so the material exists. For the Ferrari factory to help us out is more from an administration standpoint in pulling who the supplier was for given part and having them produce a limited quantity for stock. Sure would be nice if they ran the failing rubber fuel pump parts or master cylinder seals that we all will need somewhere down the line that have been written about recently here.

To answer your question about what Porsche provides I suggest you check out what they provide and you will find that yes they do provide some long needed trim items (like interior knobs and the tail light lens I previously mentioned) as well as ware items. What this whole topic has evolved into is two opinions, one that says that Ferrari could provide a valuable service to owners and those that defend their cavalier attitude of not taking care of their older cars. You only need to read the posts here for examples of much needed parts that routinely failing and NLA.

Like I said, this is my opinion and I stick with it and will not beat this horse anymore. Cheers Phil, I'm out of this thread.

 

Joe, if it's any consolation, I agree with you 100%. Ferrari trades on its history and its legacy, so the company should certainly support it. Prices of Ferrari parts are substantially higher than Porsche parts (which are already expensive) so there's zero reason that Ferrari could not make a profit, or at least break even, supporting older cars. Especially since they would undoubtedly outsource the work to other companies, so in effect we'd wind up buying "aftermarket" parts that have been factory approved. Other marques, including Lamborghini, are doing a much better job of supporting older cars and, in turn, honoring and building on their history. Doing otherwise is a very short-sighted business model.