Wheels Spacer Install @ Linder Ranch | FerrariChat
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Wheels Spacer Install @ Linder Ranch

Discussion in 'Rocky Mountain' started by G2Racer, Sep 1, 2005.

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  1. G2Racer

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    Aug 2, 2005
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    Denver, CO / USA
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    Harald Galinski
    #1 G2Racer, Sep 1, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi guys - Roland and I have just finished our 3rd Ferrari wheel spacer installations; a TR, 348 Challange and below are the photos of the beautiful 360, which we just finished, yesterday.

    The photos are before and after. The owner came over earlier, when we had done a set on Rolands TR and we put on a set on his rear wheels, just to see it - the difference was so awesome he wanted it right away. It's amazing how it changes not only the look, but highly improves road handling, increases high-end cornering speeds and improves driving stability.

    Our spacers are designed for Ferrari and Lamborghini and are Made in Germany, TUV certified and any needed bolts are Ferrari factory quality bolts. Anyone interested in a set can contact me or ask Roland about them - his TR looks even more powerful, so do the other 2 cars we have done so far.

    Thank you Roland - it was another fun afternoon at the Linder Ranch!

    Enjoy the photos...
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  2. awhite

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    #2 awhite, Sep 1, 2005
    looks good..

    I am doing my calipers this weekend , and t waiting on my NEW rims, them we will see what the offset will need to be.

    -A
     
  3. Roland E Linder

    Roland E Linder Formula 3

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    #3 Roland E Linder, Sep 1, 2005
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    This was fun to do and easy, any one could do it at home. You just need a jack and be able to remove a wheel.
    O torque wrench would be good to have...
    In a 1/2 hour to looo of the car is so change.I sure love the new feeling with the TR and Alan's 360.
    Feel free to ask questions if your interested in whell spacers.
    Roland
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  4. Roland E Linder

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    #4 Roland E Linder, Sep 1, 2005
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    heer is the 16mm spacer, on Alan,s we have 16mm in the front but 25mm in the rear. With the Ronal wheels, I have a bigger offset than the stock rims
    Roland
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  5. G2Racer

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    #5 G2Racer, Sep 1, 2005
    I have a home in Cherry Creek with a garage and tools suitable to complete any spacer installations, should anyone want the help. Honestly, it's more fun as it is work and I love doing it - a quick and easy improvement and driving enhancement. I do want to point out that the spacers are made to factory wheel and tire specifications, if you have an aftermarket wheel set, a simple bolt re-measurement is needed.

    Roland, the TR looks hot - let me take it on the track in October :)
     
  6. Bob L. Head

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    #6 Bob L. Head, Sep 1, 2005
    Maybe it's because I'm an empty-headed Bob L. Head, but I don't get it!
    Why alter the suspension geometry of a car like a Ferrari, which (Legend has it) is designed by expert trolls in the hills of northern Italy.
     
  7. awhite

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    #7 awhite, Sep 2, 2005
    Not sure which way to address this, but although as you put it the "expert trolss" in italy are good, but making adjustments to your personal needs (for the car) :) is something you need to do.

    If you look at stock ferraris, the wheels (tires) are set back in the fender, look at a CS or Challange, and you will see they pushed the tires out (to widen the wheel base)

    Some of the spacer issue, is for cosmentic purposes, it allows the wheel to completly fill out the tire well and gives the car a clean line up with the body and tires.

    The other, is that it gives a wider foot print, thus stubility.

    I must admit, I have yet to drive a car on the track with them installed, I have a 360 modena, and will be installing them shortly after I get done doing my calipers. I then will have it at the track and will report back.

    Although knowing that Roland has coached most people in this area on the art of driving, I must take his comments seriously, as if he can tell the difference then I am 100% sure I will.

    Hope this answered some of it..

    :)

    -A
     
  8. awhite

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    #8 awhite, Sep 2, 2005
    Can I drop mine off for a oil change ???

    hah

    -A
     
  9. Roland E Linder

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    #9 Roland E Linder, Sep 2, 2005
    The elevation where you live doesn't help you, that's why you should roll down to the ranch on Sunday and have a bite with us and have more oxygen...hahaha!!
    Call me later
    Roland
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  10. ferrari4evr1

    ferrari4evr1 Formula 3

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    #10 ferrari4evr1, Sep 2, 2005
    Roland,
    I was informed that spacers "Can be" dangerous. I thought about putting them on my Audi and most of the shops in Denver (all of them really) won't even put them on, for liability reasons. I know it may be an easy install but what are the potentail risks? I heard there were some cases of "lug" failure or where the wheels came flying off because of the nuts not having enough "thread" to hold onto. What are your thoughts?
     
  11. G2Racer

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    #11 G2Racer, Sep 2, 2005
    I know this question about safety was addressed to Roland, but I wanted to just mention that is is a fair and good questions. When purchasing wheel spacers for any car, it is very important that you purchase the spacers from a source that has been on the market for a while and if possible, that the spacer set (which includes the bolts) are TUV approved. TUV is the German road safety certificate and it is not only very costly to have a TUV certificate, but it also is not very easy to pass the test. Once a product has passed a TUV test, as with the FORMULA WheelSpacers made in Germany, they are not also road safe, but will typically be used on race tracks. It is critical to use factory quality bolts (which most of you know at FOD cost $38.00 each) and they are a part of the TUV certification with the FORMULA Wheel Spacers.

    Hopefully this will help answer some questions. I do not know why the shops in Denver are not selling you spacers for your Audi? H&R, another old German company, sells tons and tons of wheel spacers for Audi and many other cars here in the USA and world wide. Most good wheel companies, such as RONAL, BBS, etc. will also offer wheel spacers when selling performance wheel upgrades. If you need any help with your Audi, I can lead you in the right direction.

    I do not recommend to purchase any wheel spacers unless they are TUV road safety certified - and you won't find many, if any aside from FORMULA, for Ferrari and Lamborghini.
     
  12. awhite

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    #12 awhite, Sep 2, 2005
    Yea all what he said :)

    The TUV certification is VERY costly, and each product in Germany must go thru all these test etc before it gets the certification.

    I trust it!!

    -A
     
  13. Roland E Linder

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    #13 Roland E Linder, Sep 3, 2005
    Spacers were used on most of all my Porsche race cars( since 1968 !! ) and did many, many, many 24hrs. The right source is the only way to go. Ronal wheels have them too and are TUV approuved. Like in any thing, they are spacers and spacers !! got to go with quality for priority.
    Roland
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  14. ferrari4evr1

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    #14 ferrari4evr1, Sep 3, 2005
    Thanks Roland and G2, I'll keep that in mind when i am ready to make the purchase..... I appreciate the help....
     
  15. frogwo

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    #15 frogwo, Sep 4, 2005
    With all the conversation about the quality of actual wheel spacers the subject of effect on wheel bearings and the wheel spindle (axle) has not been brought up. By off setting the weight of the wheel and tire from other than the stock offset determined by the vehicle manufacturer there is a distinct possibility of putting a additional load on both the wheel bearings and wheel spindle which could cause a early failure of one or all of these components.
    It was stated that spacers were used on Porsche race cars. A race car has wheel bearings and wheel spindles (axles) replaced on a preventive maintenance schedule usually before the part is calculated to fail under race conditions.
     
  16. Bob L. Head

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    #16 Bob L. Head, Sep 5, 2005
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    It was another fun day at the ranch with fun, focused people!
    Thanks, as always to Roland and Helene!
    And how often can you watch a mechanic with two PhD's pull your wheels?
    (and Aaron's fajitas were also excellent!)

    I didn't expect to join the spaced-out crowd today.
    But G2's products are first rate. And I will say that 25mm on the rears and 16mm on the fronts of the 550 - do - make the big bird fly faster and nastier with her Michelin claws grabbing the ground. Subtle but better. Very interesting difference!

    I'm still somewhat concerned about wheel allignment and premature wheel bearing/ spindle wear. In the end, if there ARE "issues", the spacers will simply be for track days only; And I'll remove them when I put my drop dead HRE 547R wheels back on for the road. As it is, I'm happily driving the car over 1,000 high-speed miles a month (today, I got YIKES 10mpg with spurts to 150 and 130). Harald and Doreen both got "the ride" around north Fort.

    But I felt the increased stability the most on the ride home; and got to see how stable the 550 was, going from 65 to 135 in under a mile. The final car of three that I was passing as a cluster (a VW-something) accelerated to about 90mph, trying to screw me. But it was a wide-open, three mile straight and we'd just passed the only cop on the highway. As I nailed the VW I literally vaccuumed the dust off the road at 135mph and left him in a cloud of it. The effects of the spacers are most obvious in improved stability during high speed (100-140mph) lane changes. Tight cornering (ie, 35mph advisory curves at 60-70mph) is obviously much better; with no tire squeel and better line through the apex. But in the back of my mind, Im still wondering what effect this slight modification is having on the stock suspension, bearings, etc.
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  17. ferraripanoz

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    #17 ferraripanoz, Sep 5, 2005
    That 550 is looking good Bob L. Head. I can't wait to see car on the track, to see if it really cuts off time.
     
  18. Roland E Linder

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    #18 Roland E Linder, Sep 5, 2005
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    This was what I call a great week end, friends cars and some work on Aaron's 360 and John's 550.You can see that Aaron brought Naydia with him and the after a midnight cattles round up, we all went to enjoy a good jacuzzi. It would have been OK with me if Aaron would have gone home alone hahaha!!!
    Food was also some highlights before waxing Alan's Cayenne, yes I know, that's not a F.car !!!! Just wait to see my helper !!But Alan took his 360 with the new exhaust and spacers for a test and left the P car down in the lower shop with the 2 other {P cars.) Can't mix the F and the P together with the crowd we had here ..Can't we ???
    ( See pic) After the spacers instalation, we all went in a convoy to the lake for R&R in Alan's boat club. The parking looked good with 2 360,my TR and P car and a Vette..Yes, we were nice to let them run with us..
    Thanks guys for a fun week end, now it's time to mop the shop.
    Roland
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  19. Roland E Linder

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    #19 Roland E Linder, Sep 5, 2005
    Do you think that manufactors don't know about that?? When you change wheels and have an other offset, it's the same situation and millions of wheels have been sold without bearing etc.. troubles.
    Remember that we are not talking about a BIG spacer, just 16mm to 25 mm.
    This is just a cheaper way than new rims, not everybody wants to change rims to have a fuller wheel well.
    Roland
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  20. G2Racer

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    #20 G2Racer, Sep 5, 2005
    Hi FROGWO: I only had a chance to look at the chat today to see your address on wheel spacers effect on wheel bearings and axel. I should have gone into this in one of the replies I did with regard to TUV and sorry I missed that. I may have done so in an eMail to John. Just a couple of points from our perspective: Our wheel spacers have TUV approval for use on Ferrari. The reason TUV is over 1,000x more strict v/s the British road safety requirement (just as an example), and so very costly, simply is that they don’t just test the product, but its safety while being use, how it effects the cars performance and wear. Any significant changes in wear on bearings, axel and even any changes in unsprung weight, costing a more unstable ride, would limit a manufacturer from getting a car specific TUV certificate. Our spacers have a Ferrari Tested TUV certificate and since we are using a material 80% lighter than this of comp steel spacers, you only increase the unsprung weight by a minimal amount.

    Interestingly enough, people put larger wheels on cars (including some of my Ferrari buddies) and don’t realize that, in some cases, the added unsprung weight is MUCH larger than adding our Aluminum-Magnesium Alloy spacers. Why do they do it? To increase driving stability, get better traction, and to achieve higher cornering speeds. Same reason people put spacers on!

    Some of you know that I did a 50,000 miles test on a KLEEMANN Supercharged CLK43K Mercedes (430HP), which, due to upgrading to monster size brakes and wanting to have better stability, was fitted with wheel spacers. The car was tested at the DiamlerChrysler track her in the USA by Frank Marcus of Car & Driver (December 2002 Car & Driver) for three(3) full, hard days, in combination with me taking it for 50,000 miles of mountains, high-way and tons of track time – never had one issue with bearings and/or axel. The wheel spacers simply helped giving it a more stable and solid ride, faster and more secure in turns and on top of all, a better look.

    As a final note, I know this is a FerrariChat, but PORSCHE actually sells “Porsche Wheel Spacers”, 17mm and 5mm (I have the Porsche parts numbers if anyone like to check) and the 5mm in Europe, from Porsche, by Porsche are Euro 315.00 (1 set only), which at today’s exchange is about US$387.00. What is the important aspect of those Porsche Wheel Spacers? They have a TUV Certificate for use on Porsche cars and thus, can be put on a new and/or used Porsche without any concerns by Porsche. I can go on and on, but the key is to make certain that if a part you purchase for your car is not from Ferrari, it should always be TUV approved for use on Ferrari!
     
  21. Bob L. Head

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    #21 Bob L. Head, Sep 5, 2005
    Thanks to Harald and Roland's feedback here, I'm confident that TUV wouldn't be "messing around" with certifying something that was inherently damaging. I appreciated Froggy's questioning however, as I'm basically an ignorant BobLHead. I do, however, know an O-chen Prekasni-ya E Tosha Interiosni-ya Devochka when I meet her! Go Nadya! Go Aaron! Go Pascal! And Alan, the "Big Game" IS in Ft Collins on Oct 22. A meeting at your house would be very cool.
    Dasvidanya Tovarishee! Goodbye Comrades! Brains-off-Board...aka BOB.
     
  22. awhite

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    #22 awhite, Sep 5, 2005
    I just got back home and wanted to respond to this as well..

    I agree with some aspects of your statement, although the Spacer sizes are nothing close to adding any type of extra tension or undo stress on any part of the axle, bearings, etc...

    More then half the aftermarket rims, including Speeline, add offsets onto the rims, and or the rims flare out more.
     
  23. awhite

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    #23 awhite, Sep 5, 2005

    Yeall that stuff he said :)

    -A
     
  24. awhite

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    #24 awhite, Sep 5, 2005
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  25. Roland E Linder

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    #25 Roland E Linder, Sep 5, 2005
    What's Scardia ?? hahaha!!
    Thanks, great week end, you need more work on your cowboy side, but Naydia got the look..
    We all had a great time with super BBQ. Friends, (girl) food and cars, what else can you ask for ??
    Roland
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