When are we going to see carbon tub Ferraris? | FerrariChat

When are we going to see carbon tub Ferraris?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Enzo91, Sep 20, 2017.

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  1. Enzo91

    Enzo91 Rookie

    Aug 11, 2016
    I know the Hyper cars all have carbon tubs. I am talking about the 488, 812, Portifino. What has Ferrari chosen to favor aluminum over carbon? Is it a cost/production issue? Are there benefits of going aluminum? And when do you think we will start to see Ferrari's "lesser" models start to use carbon tubs?
  2. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2004
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    Whats the benefit of a Cf tub? A 4c weights more than and aluminum elise. Is an Cf aventador light.
    From what I can see a cf tub means you dont need to do reinforcements for a convertable and it is just a stiff as a hard top.

    Against is cost, and also felxibility. Aluminum means you can build a number of different cars off the same gberal platform, by varying length width even eguine location. Modifications and evolutiosn are easier to do too.

    Besides marketing what are the real benefits of a CF tub in road car. Could be weight could be stiffness, biut so far these are not apparent.
    LARRYH likes this.
  3. ExcelsiorZ

    ExcelsiorZ Formula 3

    Nov 7, 2003
    Beverly Hills
    I think this is something Ferrari will have to seriously re-examine given the sales success and positive reception McLaren has enjoyed with all of their cars having carbon tubs.
  4. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    Mar 1, 2007
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    Honestly...it is all about marketing. Ferrari has to appear to have cutting edge technology and performance, even if it will never be used by it's customers.
    3POINT8 and DGPF like this.
  5. Enzo91

    Enzo91 Rookie

    Aug 11, 2016

    Well obviously there is a benefit to CF tubs since Ferrari uses them in their hyper cars and the F1 cars. There is no way it is just for marketing reasons. Aside from stiffness and weight savings, one of the main benefits of a carbon tub is occupant safety.
    psych0hans likes this.
  6. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    Hockenheim, Germany
  7. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 4, 2004
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    Carbon fibre tubs save lives.

    Ferrari wont be onboard until its dragged in kicking and screaming all the way.
    Always the last with technology.
    IloveGT, tbakowsky and DGPF like this.
  8. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    Hockenheim, Germany
  9. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Aug 29, 2008
    Madison Ohio
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    David A.
    Was a rumor, That CF might not age well. Classic CF tubs would deteriorate! I don't know if true? But how well are the modern hi-tech super cars going to become classics like older Ferrari's with complicated electronics? Will there be replacement ECU's available?
  10. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2010
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    #10 Jaguar36, Sep 28, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
    It is certainly not true. There are many 30+year old aircraft flying around with carbon fiber parts that have no issues.

    The main benefit to carbon fiber is higher specific stiffness and specific strength. That means that you can make a part lighter, or make it stiffer and stronger for the same weight. The downside is the cost and engineering time associated with it. As those come down we will see them in 'mainstream' Ferraris.
    ShineKen likes this.
  11. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    My guess is the 488 replacement will have it.

    The 488 is built from the 458, so adding a carbon fiber tub was probably infeasible, since the 458 was a 2010 car, when none of the cars in the segment. had that tech.

    The Mclaren changed that in 2012, but it's not like Ferrari can then immediately stick a carbon tub of their own into the 458/488 generation.

    Cars like the F12 or portofino have a different design focus, so carbon tubs wouldn't make sense in them:
  12. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    Dec 11, 2001
    On the Limit
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    There is a burgeoning market for ECU docs. As far carbon fiber lasting. My March/Cosworth 87C has a CF tub that shows no signs of failure, 30 years on.

    If you have driven a McLaren, the stiffness and responsiveness of the chassis are superior. Add that to the inherent safety and you have a real winner. I ride a full carbon fiber bike and the responsiveness of the way it handles is so much better than a comparable metal frame. Plus, the power to weight advantage (14 pounds), gives me an advantage. CF is the way forward.
    DGPF likes this.
  13. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    Hockenheim, Germany
    Nicky_Santoro likes this.
  14. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    Thank you for the very interesting link. I wonder if Ferrari's new modular architecture could support a CF tub?
  15. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    Hockenheim, Germany
    According to the Autocar article yes.
    See my earlier post #8.
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  16. Jas

    Jas Formula 3

    Mar 2, 2005
    Kent, UK
    Full Name:
    I found this thread after posting this same question on another forum.

    What are people's views now on when Ferrari will switch from aluminium to Carbon Fibre construction?

    Are they simply too heavily invested in aluminium processes and equipment to do carbon on the large scale required for Ferrari V8 numbers?

    Genuine question. Having owned a Ferrari in the past, and now only owning 3 full carbon cell cars, I would like to add a Ferrari to my garage again, but struggle to see me buying "old tech". Especially as I'd want a convertible, where the material differences on stiffness and handling are even more extreme.

    Might it happen with the F8 Tributo's hybrid replacement? Or is there just no possibility?
  17. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    Le caylar (France)
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    mathieu Jeantet
    New Ferrari modular platform provide differents kind of passenger cell materials.
    One of them is carbonfibre .
    I guess we should see it in may with the revealing of the new top of the range mid engine car .
  18. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
    Charleston, SC
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    Buy a LaFerrari. Problem solved.

    Most Ferrari owners don't drive their cars where it matters, so what's the point? McLaren might have them as well but none that I know actually drives their cars either to take advantage of it. All they do is open the doors at all the car meets so the bugs and mosquitos can fly around inside. "Look at my cars Billionaire doors!"
  19. rotaryrocket7

    rotaryrocket7 Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2011
    Eden Prairie, MN
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    Ferrari has massively invested in Aluminum technology (partnership with a local college that is world leading) and employs some of the best welders in the world. The metal foundry is on site for them, I think they'll continue with their approach for a long while before transitioning, in fact I'd almost bet a major manufacturer will go there first.
    Nicky_Santoro likes this.
  20. PaulK

    PaulK F1 Rookie
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    Apr 24, 2004
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    My thoughts almost exactly. I didn't know they partnered with a local college, but I do know they partnered with Alcoa and sink a ton of money into aluminum production. They'll have to depreciate that investment and get their money out of it first. Long story short, I wouldn't expect them to switch until they really have to.

    A bit of a shame. I thought it would have been cool to see the Dino sub-brand make a comeback and introduce a production class carbon tubbed car for Ferrari
  21. mycatisholdingmehostage

    Jan 19, 2018
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    I have and in my opinion they are not.
    Nicky_Santoro likes this.
  22. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    Hockenheim, Germany
    This is not just black or white. Having made huge investments in aluminium does not hold you back to look at carbon fibre technologies. It doesn’t contradict each other. Quite the opposite they can complement each other. A perfect showcase is the LAF which features a carbon tub combined with aluminium sub frames. Then again Ferrari has quite different approached models which will require different technological solutions and material choices. While for a rear-mid-engine sports car a carbon tub makes very much sense for a four seat GT less so. At the end there will be enough possibilities for aluminium technology applications even with increasing use of carbon fibre.
    SVR likes this.
  23. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    Mar 29, 2007
    Phoenix AZ
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    ya... that whole f1 gearbox was so far behind...
    Qavion, Igor Ound and DirtyScud like this.
  24. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    Mar 29, 2007
    Phoenix AZ
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    but why? Just to say it is carbon?
  25. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    Sadly not always !

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