When did you start to "race"? When is it too late? Any advice for a starter?

You tell 'em, Dave!

-Peter
www.peterkrause.net

 

This is a thread I should be fully involved with, but I just don't have the time or energy this week.

 

most everyone has said what Im about to write...but no matter..i guess it bears some repeating.

If you dream of F1..ect.. you needed to start with karts at 5 or 4..or 3yr old.

Are you too late to go pro? No. Not at all. This all assumes you have some natural talent and ALOT of money. Of course there is pro racing and then there is pro racing. You can buy your way into a pro series with 1-2 years of track experience and schools. But it won't F1. It will be Pro something..like Pro Mazda.

I've seem people begin racing at 40 years old. They take the schools, buy the car, and end up in a pro series. Most didnt do very well. Myself included (at least in the pro series Ive raced in)...but it is pro racing.

As for how and where, thats up to you. Lots of people I know usually modify street cars and go to local or regional events with either SCCA or NASA...GL!!

 

Just to give you some good news, Paul Newman didn't start until he was in his 40's, and he had innate talent. He certainly won a few races against some name drivers, however, it has to be said, he had immaculately prepped equipment and of course a budget that was way beyond his competitors.
Although I am a JV fan, I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know whether he started in karts at a young age, however, I can tell you I was slightly underwhelmed when I watched him at his first Jim Russell course at Mont Tremblant. He was a pudgy 15 years old at the time (we're the same age) and Uncle Jacques was watching him (and reading a newspaper) from behind the wheel of a Pontiac Trans-Am. My older brother asked his instructors how he was doing and the ex Indy 500 champ and WDC was then described slightly unflatteringly as 'ok for 15, not bad' .

You''ll know soon enough how good you are. Go for it and find out.

 

I have a few ideas as to why, but mostly a guess (track-line read and car set-up experience and obviously other stuff), but can someone clearly explain why, and what it is, that makes such a huge a difference in a driver that starts at 4-5 yrs old vs someone with talent to start in his 20s or 30s and get to the "big leagues"? Why is it "too late" for someone with the passion and (assuming serious skills) to start later in life and get to the high level pro racing (F1, NASCAR etc.)? Just curious. Is it political, (connections gained through the years, reputation based), number of sanctioned races under belt to justify the step up, forget about financial issues, what else is there (of course assuming natural and trained skills)?

 

IMO, it's mainly the fact that "talent" doesn't replace experience. For someone to grow up racing different types of machines, it would be much easier to hop into an F1 car and do well.

 

I spite of that, I still think V8 Supercars is still more interesting than F1! Unfortunately we don't get to see the races until 6 months after the fact, if at all, on Speed TV...

 

You can build a competitive, fun car for under $5000. I took my beater Hyundai Accent 1600cc twin cam daily driver, added racing belts, wheels, tires, suspension and a computer chip, (went though the engine and trans myself, with some help...it's basically stock) and am very competitive in the class I race in. I have less than $5000 total investment in the car. My expensive for racing are based on how often I race, and to run about 5 times a year is around $2500. I don't have to have a driver's suit in the class I race, and the helmet was around $200. You can have a lot of fun for not that much money..

 

If you do put your son in a kart at age 3, make sure you take him to an empty lot every time it rains. That's what Senna's dad did for him, and that's why he thought he was so good in the rain.

Also see if you can still pick up this magazine. Some good stuff in there. I like the review of the racing schools.
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In Europe karts aren't just for kids. And frankly there is no better bang for the buck. I'm not current on what the hot classes are, but if I were in your shoes I'd find the nearest karting circuit and be there on weekends. Chances are you'll find a used kart going cheap, and can jump in and start getting experience.

Lots of people don't realise how quick a real kart is. It's much better than any road car converted to a race car.

 

JV obviously had the advantage of his name, and a lot of tobacco sponsorship in the day. He didn't start racing until his teens, and didn't start in karts. His mother tried to keep him away from racing (understandably.) Another later comer to racing was Damon Hill. He didn't start motorbike racing until his 20's, I believe. He moved onto formula fords. He didn't start racing in f1 until he was 32. They both become world champions.

 

Still waiting on a consice clear explanation, does anyone have one? Or is this the general consensus biased with a "herd mentality" ("if that's what 'THEY' say then it MUST be"). No disrespect meant, just curious.

We all know there are semi/non-pro circuits out there to join and race, but what about the guy/girl that can afford to retire in his
20s or 30s and put all his effort into getting to the high level of racing. Why is it too late?
Should I start a new thread with this question?

 

If you start around 5 or so, by the time your in your late teens you have a ton of experience by the time your in top physical shape (late teens). Ton of energy, your ready for the final polishing to be at the absolute top of your game. Starting in your 20's or so means after several years of gainin experience your past your prime. your body is starting to go down hill. Look at it from marketing/longevity standpoint. Say you started in your 20 's and had an absolute ton of natural talent so your racing at the top levels by the time your in your very late 20's. In the case of F1 you've only got a few years to go before your at retirement age. Right now Champ car is the same and so is the IRL. Nascar is in a state of flux regarding drivers age. The new drivers coming in are mostly all in their early 20's to late teens. So where does that leave you? BTCC, DTM, ALMS, Grand-AM. While those are great series to be in, they too are just stepping stones for someone either on their way up, or down.

I guess it depends on what you define "the top levels of motorsport" to be. If your thinking ALMS, Grand-Am then yes you absolutely could get to that level starting out in your 20's and 30's. But if your thinking F1, you're much too old.

 

Same reason children/toddlers should pick up to learn to play the piano, the violin or learn a foreign language: The brain is in its best phase to make all the connections between the neurons. Learning is never easier than at that age, particularly learning any kinetic abilities.

The argument, that if you start early enough you get plenty of practice by the time you are an adult is of course true as well, but it really is secondary. Getting your nerve endings connected is what it is all about.

One of the reasons Michael Schumacher was so good at what he did (this all according to Ross Brawn), was because his brain had plenty of left over capacity to deal with the racing: The driving on the limit was no longer an active function in Michael's conscious, but something that has become an automatic response (like we drive a car) and that gave him time to reflect on race strategy, communicate with the pits, adjust the settings of his car and watch over the health of his car or drive around any issues.

 

Some people have a natural talent for singing (e.g., Pavaroti), for painting (e.g., van Gogh), for engineering design, building bridges, playing the stock market, whatever, while others do not. In my 33 years of club racing, I did fairly well, won more than my share of races. The key to me was feeling comfortable and not intimated or scared to go fast. However, as much as I would have loved to race in the pro series, I soon realized I was handicapped by poor depth perception. I am convinced that drivers like Stirling Moss and Michael Schumacher see the track better than their peers and their brains process this visual information better than the rest of us. I had to memorize each track to know when I needed to brake, to turn into a corner, where to hit the apex and where to catch the car on the exit. I could could not visualize a track, I had to memorize it, which is completely different. This was not something I had control over, but I practiced at strengthening my depth perception and I focused on memorizing each corner of each track, so I got along ok. There is no way to predict if a new driver will do well or not without empirical experience on the track. I remember seeing some very hot drag car drivers show up at our road course and panic at the approach to the first corner. And we never saw them again.

 

This is what they said to me my whole life................... Im a pro athlete. EVERYONE says, must turn pro before you turn 21 or you might as well give up on the pro thought. I turned pro at 25 years old. The fact is, if your good enough, then your good enough. The only difference from starting at 4 or 24 is experience. Now dont get me wrong, thats the second most important thing. The first is talent. If your a full talent, then you can start at any age. Its just fact, if you keep winning and follow the right roads and do your contacts, use people(in the right way!) you can make it at any age.

It all comes down to how good you are!

 

You are never too old to start. Do a Skip Barber type course or two. Get started in the best car for the class that you can afford. Recognize now that not everyone gets to F1 and still most people have a lot of fun doing it. The people you meet will be uniformly fascinating and racing can be about as much fun as you will ever have. Lots of people stay in the amateur ranks for years and some people need to progress to pro. You will figure that out. Just try to learn as much as you can and have a good time. I started in Karts at 11 and pretty much raced something every weekend until I quit racing after 4 years as a Pro. I was an awfully good amateur racer and mostly just awful as a Pro. It was all fun and I'd never trade the experiences. The best quote I ever heard about starting racing was from Gary Nixon, the professional Motorcycle racer. Someone told him they would give anything to be a pro motorcycle racer and Gary looked him in the eye and said "No you wouldn't." Just do it

 

All it really takes to enter virtually any "pro" series in the US is cash. Having the funding, there's still a daunting gap between those who drive a racecar in a pro series, and the professional racecar drivers.

 

For all of you who have advised this fine young fellow to give it a whirl, well, you’re right! You never know what you can do until you try. There is a huge number of really talented drivers who could beat everyone, only they never get into a car and end up as cost accountants, possibly with a plumbing or dog food manufacturer. You don’t have to worry about them beating you which is great, the odds have just improved, you just have to worry about the rest who have done something about their desire. So, insearchofdrivingnirvana, go out and give them something to worry about in turn - you.

You are not too old. I became interested in racing when I was 26 and, without hearing the sort of sagacious advice that would have persuaded me to abandon the effort because of advanced age, really enjoyed myself.

I was in Ireland at the time so I went to the school, a Saturday only effort, at the country’s sole race track, Mondello. Below is a photo I took at the first test session, the school’s mud encrusted wreck of a FF 1600 prominent in the foreground, the chief instructor, puffing on a ***, dressed in single layer nomex in the background. I think the nomex suit was there in case he dropped his cigarette, he certainly never got into a car! Mind you, although he looked like the third Kray twin and drank most of a bottle of whiskey a day (“Johnny Walker Red please, not the Black stuff, I’m cutting back....”) he actually was a great teacher. Without him roaring about one’s lack of ability to track the line and showing the student, on foot, where the wet line was and why, I don’t think I would have gone beyond driving nails into wood, and badly at that. As it was by the time we parted ways, about two years later, I had been filled with knowledge and guile and was thus cunning enough in the ways of motor sport to know what to do in most occasions. Within six years of the picture I was a paid driver working for a major manufacturer at Le Mans. Who would have thunk?

I was lucky. How do you, insearchofdrivingnirvana, know you aren’t too? Pick up the bat, give it a swing!

Oh, one small word of warning: It will take up all your time and even more of your efforts. Your work will be like a chalk painting; just as every burst of rain wipes it all away, your attempts, your massive efforts during which you literally risk your life will often be negated and rendered into dross by the carelessness of others and small mechanical breakages. Be prepared not to take yourself seriously, even when you have risked your life and imperiled your wallet to state your intentions.

If you know that others should value your labor immediately, then perhaps you should listen to those that advise another line of work. It is a tough trade.
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Well said, Mark.

And, seriously, when is your book coming out?

 

Lots of great prose here, so as quickly as I can (and I can get wordy...)
1. It's NEVER TOO LATE. If you believe those who tell you it is, then it is. If you believe you can do it no matter what others say, so be it.
As Henry Ford once said - If you believe you can or you believe you can't, either way you're exactly right.
I know and have coached many pro drivers who are doing well in the sport who started late (some in their 30s!) and they WIN RACES. I say this even though you say you're simply looking to fulfill a dream around a hobby-sport, over racing pro. Like Mark said - you never know... once you're in, you may surprise everyone! There's a lot more racing out there than F1 & NASCAR...

2. You are best to invest in training before hardware. This will provide you true insight into the sport over speculative. It may not be your bag after all and there's only one way to find out: get behind the wheel and learn from a professional instructor. Racing is not what most who are not involved think it is - it is much more (and less) in many ways. This will also give you experience and education that will help you find where you want to compete, which will then answer the 'with what'. Lastly on this point, if you have car club schools in your area where you can bring your current car and learn from club instructors in a controlled event - do it! The education is invaluable for beginners and inexpensive as well. Many who thought they wanted to race at first have found that they are very content to play in this area.

3. Be prepared to be addicted. Once this stuff gets in your blood, it is very hard to get out. As the old riddle/saying goes: "Do you know how to make a small fortune in racing?..............Start with a large one!" Once addicted, you'll be amazed how priorities can shift around time and money budgets!

All in all - do what your heart tells you and bugger the rest! Follow your passion/bliss and the rest will work itself out. If it's racing, then I say WELCOME!!! Come on in, the water's great!

Cheers & All The Best to Ya,
C

 

Basically Bro, get started, and enjoy the ride...

 

I disagree with the "just jump in and do it" philosophy. Going to a racing school might give you a license but it does not prepare you to race if you have no other track experience. Personally, I would not want to go door to door with a driver with such limited experience.

Do some Driver's Education classes first. Make sure you really enjoy the sport and begin to learn the line and car control. You should not be racing until driving at the limit (or near it) is second nature. In a race your concentration needs to be on managing traffic, not controlling a slide. You should know how a car's handling and track conditions change over the course of a run session or throughout the day. Until you understand this, you are not safe to be racing in close quarters with others. Just like a 16 year old with a new driver's license is not safe on the street, a newly minted 'race car driver' without prior experience on the track is not safe to race.