When does Ferrari realize it is not just 0-60? | Page 3 | FerrariChat
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When does Ferrari realize it is not just 0-60?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by James_Woods, Aug 13, 2008.

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  1. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2006
    5,611
    San Antonio
    #51 VisualHomage, Aug 16, 2008
    +100
     
  2. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    46,158
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    #52 LightGuy, Aug 16, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2008
    0-60 sells cars.
    No one wants to have to not engage in a stop light grand prix when one is afraid that WRX is going to eat you for lunch.
    Lose ? Posted on Youtube that night.

    I cant stand the fact that the newer brainless automatic/traction control cars are quicker than a hands on stick but thats the way of the future.
    Ferrari saw this years ago.
    Hope they save one "stripper" model for the Luddites. Me.

    The F40 was the peak of Ferrari.
     
  3. mrfissa

    mrfissa Karting

    May 27, 2005
    213
    #53 mrfissa, Aug 16, 2008
    As the French would say "touche".
     
  4. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
    Dallas, Tx.
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    James K. Woods
    #54 James_Woods, Aug 18, 2008
    Well, maybe I am just such an idealist. However, maybe yesterday does not really have to be 1972 - I pulled out an old R & T comparo test between the NSX, Porsche 993 Targa, and the Ferrari F355 spider: 0-60, 0-100, and 1/4 mile times were:

    Ferrari F355 Spider: 5.3 / 12.7 / 13.7 @ 104.5 (top speed 175)
    Porsche 993 Targa: 5.2 / 12.6 / 13.7 @ 103.5 (top speed 171)

    So, the "Dino" equivalent of 1996 had about the same performance differential over the 911 as the 1972 versions of both cars, give or take a few tenths here and there. Porsche accelerates just a little better off the line, Ferrari makes up for it as the speeds rise. But not by much. The cost differential is way more, however - $146,255 over $79,646. 184%. When I went shopping in 1972 for a sports car, a 911S cost about $10,500 - while the Dino 246 ran about $12,900 list. That was 123% over the Porsche.

    I think that it is almost insane that in the acceleration numbers frenzy of today we would call the numbers above "slow cars". Well, if not slow, then mediocre by the standards of our new day.

    Look at the 2007 equivalents:

    Ferrari F430 Spider: 4.0 / 9.2 / 12.3 @ 116.9 (top speed 193)
    Porsche 911 Carrera S: 3.9 / 9.6 / 12.3 @ 114.8 (top speed 182)

    Price - $205,000 / $91,560 - or 224% premiums over the Porsche.

    My point? With these three generations, while performance has largely remained equivalent with each comparison, the Ferrari has increased in price point from 123%, 184%, and finally 224% over rival Porsche. And that last number assumes (falsely, I suspect) that anybody actually obtained a new F430 Spider for the list price of $205,000.

    At the same time, I don't think that I will get much honest argument that the aesthetics of the three Ferrari's has the Dino at about 10 points out of 10, the F355 maybe 7.5 points, and the F430 only about a 5 or 6 (and I would give it less than that personally). The Porsche rates at least two points under the Ferrari in 1972, and again in 1996. In 2007, I would put them about even at only 5 or 6 points for style. Again, nobody on this planet with adequate vision will tell you that the 997 was a styling advance over the classic 993 - nor the 430 over the 355.

    OK, so my point with the whole thread is that I personally would like to see Ferrari trying harder in the style & charm department. With all the increased cost of the new mid-engine models, they are barely staying ahead on performance numbers, and everyone seems to feel that they have lost a lot of the traditional stylish appeal. And I could very nicely live with performance numbers like the 1996 pair, especially if 246 style could be achieved today.
     
  5. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

    Jun 6, 2003
    2,721
    Worcester, MA
    Full Name:
    Michael.C.James
    #55 M.James, Aug 18, 2008
    I 'might' agree if the Automotive Press did also - they do not. If you've read Car and Driver, Road and Track, Automobile or other wide-circulation newsstand magazine, the praises of the F430/599/612 are all raving over the looks and performance of the vehicles. With such praise, Ferrari obviously has no need to advertise and completely sell-out the annual production runs. One can directly correlate the positive car-magazine reviews with the sales demand - people ARE paying attention to what C&D, R&T, etc. are saying, and all the armchair racers out there pour over the performance data like fantasy-league baseball stats. The zero-to-sixty numbers appear to the Sports Car Afficionado, not necessarily the Ferrari Afficionado - two totally-different markets, each with different viewpoints and needs. There are scores of 'casual' Ferrari owners out there, who really don't care so much about the romance/heritage/marque nonsense and just want a car that is reliable, useable, and faster than most other cars out there. Ferrari has always built a 'fast' car, comparative to what Porsche has been offering, but now finally offers a car that is reliable and useable - and is attracting a completely new type of buyer because of it. I can tell you this much - so long as Ferrari edges-out Porsche in the performance category, styling will be determined solely by Wind Tunnel measurements for drag reduction and prices will climb until a level is reached where Ferrari will still continue to sell-out their annual production.

    For those who insist on romantisizing about them 'good ole' days', vote with your wallet and buy a 308 or Mondial with 'needs' and restore it. Why B!tch about a car you really can't afford, and aren't in the market for, anyway?
     
  6. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    James K. Woods
    #56 James_Woods, Aug 18, 2008
    I voted with my wallet for a single mirror Testarossa. Does this not count for any B!tchen rights at all? Or any style points?
     
  7. Speed_Demon

    Speed_Demon Rookie

    Aug 18, 2008
    16
    #57 Speed_Demon, Aug 18, 2008
    This makes scary reading, seemingly implying Ferrari is losing the simple passion in creating cars?

    I think this increased focus on performance and apparent lack of character comes because Ferrari has had to move with the times, in previous decades, 70s and such, Ferrari could perhaps afford to get away with cars having flaws, or being a challenge to drive (giving it character) because they were simply unmatched, the cars could be bought simply because they were Ferrari (but they were great to drive), the designers could just throw into a car what came into their head, what felt right. Now with other performance car companies around, such as Zonda, Lamborghini, Porsche etc. massive movements in technology and a fascination with straight line speed and handling perfection, Ferrari has to create technically perfect cars, that are rapid in a straight line and round the track, which takes technology (nowerdays to keep up). Unfortunately this technology, need to create cars that are of certain aerodynamic efficency and exact build quality has detracted from what really matters to driving enthusiasts, which isn't just going really fast, but feeling connected to a car and making driving almost an art from.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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