when is a Classische restoration a replica?

Some Emperors have no clothes.

 

Interesting, so this car is on its sixth engine now.

the original
a Tipo 105 3-litre Monza engine in 1956
a Chevrolet V8 in 1957
0538M's 750 Monza engine in 1971
??? (0538M got its engine back ~1993, replacing the Chevy V8 it had at the time. Both cars were restored that year.)
the Classiche engine

I'm curious what engine was installed during the '93 restoration. Bryanp or his father may know that, among others.

500 Mondial PF Spyder 0438MD

Detail - 750 Monza s/n 0538M

 

Because Ferrari did the work, I'd consider it a restoration. But there's not much left from 1954...

 

"New version' of course means that Ferrari Classische built a brand-new engine from all of the original design drawings and of the same materials"

It is a well known that Ferrari does not manufacture, founder, nor machine the original vintage engines used in Classiche restorations within the grounds of the factory. Every "Classiche" vintage period engine is manufactured by subcontract vendors in the Modena area (Classiche may employ parts made outside of the Modena area or Italy ie. Roelofs or others into these engines). Classiche may assemble those subcontract manufactured parts into a completed finished unit. In most cases Classiche install the finished engine and merely sprinkle the "Holy Water" (reputedly local Lambrusco that has gone bad) on the finished product and issue the appropriately colored "Certification" book.

 

Well put. One idea is to create a separate class for the Classiche'd cars. tonga's crew

 

Hi - the story of the various motors is too much of a headache to try to explain here. I can say that 0538M has its correct motor now.

 

In other words if Ferrari puts an entirely different or newly built engine in a car it becomes the original. But if anyone else were to install the engine from the next car that came off of the assembly line behind said car, it is a fake and only worth half as much.
No wonder their Country is in the toilet

 

Eventually ,all the older cars will have to be certified if you hope to sell at a high price. The new uneducated new buyers will request it. Today, the first thing a buyer asks for is the book. Especially if it is a very high priced car. Because old timers and Internet people speak negitive about the program, it is here to stay. Like it or not.

P

 

All?

Have to?

Dino Competizione?

Ferrari 512s Modulo?

 

If the above cars were constructed by PF They would not be certified by Ferrari
They would have to be certified by PF 😃

 

Is there any reason why your cars would be exempt from authentication by Ferrari Classiche?

 

I guess it is because you are not a "new uneducated buyer"

 

Exempt???

Not sure I understand what you're asking.

None of my cars have been nor will they ever be during my lifetime.

After that I doubt my kids will have any interest in Classiche as they don't presently.

 

I am very sorry but your question seemed to infer that because they are your cars they are above the Classiche authentication process.

 

where are you getting this?? I would like to think that my father has helped educate the Factory re; the four-cylinder cars. We know better than the Factory what we have and have no need of a Certificate.

edit: perhaps you are being facetious and it am not getting it thru the web.

 

To add a bit "from the horse's mouth", I had acquired the basic car, 0438MD, as a derelict, with no engine, no instruments, no seats, etc., and no idea what I was going to do with it. I discovered that the body was covered with a layer of fiberglass. Then, I heard that a 750 Monza engine was in a wrecking yard in Tijuana, Mexico, having been taken across the border when the Feds were after Tony Parravano. I drove down there and searched the wrecking yards until I found the engine marked 0538M, complete less carbs and half it's exhaust headers. I bought it for 800 Pesos, about $200, loaded it into the trunk of my wife's Mercedes, paid the duty at the border, and made it home with the tail dragging. I had no notion of combining the car and engine, but when Dick Merritt heard about what I had he bought the package and sold it on to England, where it languished for many years. In those days we were not so much into history, and I only learned later that the car had been a von Neumann car and had run with a Monza engine. Sorry, my computer will not download pix from the day.

 

You may know what you have but potential buyers may not. It's great that Classiche have taken advice from the Admiral regarding a 4 cylinder car. That you do not need Classiche doesn't give you the right to undermine its merit.

I wasn't being facetious. Napolis's answer confirmed what I thought

 

Ferrari Classiche is nothing more than a profit center for Ferrari and they couldn't care less about the cars. But as long as they can convince anyone interested in buying one that they should have it blessed by them with their cheap wine for an insane price they will keep doing it.

 

Red Book Classiche means the car is at the time of certification "as original", not necessarily "original."

 

True.

 

So by your logic, anyone owning a vintage Ferrari needs to line up like a good soldier, fork over $30k, $40k, $50k for a red binder (what does that binder run these days?), otherwise we are "undermining" Ferraris commercial venture?? We are required to support Ferrari's commercial venture? Interesting view. Are you an FNA employee or perhaps employed by an authorized Ferrari dealer/shop?

We are big fans of Sgr. Arrighi, but nothing I say will undermine the Classiche department - he has a monumental task where his team needs to be right 100% of the time. We're just opting not to play. Classiche's early mis-steps are well known - SpA undermined itself with its early mistakes and, in my opinion, not concentrating on the vintage parts aspect of the department as much as they should have out of the gate.

 

Like others here, my cars will not be subjected to "certification" in my lifetime. I know exactly what I have and do not need an expensive "pat on the back" by the factory. Classiche is a "profit center", nothing more, nothing less. There is nobody left at the factory that knows how the old cars were made.

It is a fact that the auction company's attempt to get sellers to certify cars. They do this knowing that the "Red Book" helps market the car to new, uneducated buyers. However, as I review auction results, I am not sure it actually generates higher sales prices.

The Classiche staff has had continued turnover as people are reassigned within the company. This alone keeps the level of knowledge low and the resulting number of "mistakes" high.

It is true that almost no actual work is done at the factory, most everything is outsourced to other shops and suppliers.

 

True.

"The right?"

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

 

True and those of us who know who does the real and best work are able to use these shops at a MUCH lower cost than going through The Naked Emperor.