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When is Classiche not Classiche? Please Ferrari, help.

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by Camlet1, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3
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    So I purchased my F50 from a very well known London specialist dealer in 2015. It was sold as having full Classiche. And I have the authentic book to prove it, dated September 2014.

    The car came with a magnificent Tubi exhaust system. The today she is in excellent health, and is pampered with considerable love. She's a keeper.

    However, last week (yes, my bad) I noticed for the first time in my F50 Classiche book, a photograph of the engine showed it having its oem exhaust system. Strange. The advertisement never mentioned the exhaust system, only that the car was Classiche (in fairness the ad comprised a shot of the engine in the showroom with Tubis).

    This week I contacted the dealer.

    His explanation was that the Classiche was conducted at his premises/workshop (he is an authorised Ferrari workshop but not a sales agent) in late 2013/early 2014. The car had not been sold to him, he merely arranged its Classiche for its then owner. It wasn't until September 2014 that the authorised paperwork/Classiche book was issued.

    The dealer told me by this time the previous owner had switched the exhausts (complete system). He said he had/has no knowledge of when the exhausts were switched, or what happened to the oem system. He said the work was not done by him. The car was sold to me by the dealer in Q1 2015.

    The problem is technically the car without its oem exhaust is NOT Classiche.

    I understand Ferrari changed its policy recently and requires annual checks, I guess to correctly keep track on any changes etc. The problem is Ferrari is not supplying any oem exhausts,and approximately 70% of F50s in the world have Tubis. I'm also told oem exhausts are impossible to find.

    I'm told Tubis are much better than the oem systems but that doesn't change the fact; no oem exhaust, no Classiche.

    The dealer says many of the oem exhausts were scrapped.

    I was a novice, and though I didn't know the importance of the oem exhaust at the time, the advertisement stated the car was Classiche, which according to the rules it wasn't at the time of purchase. But hey, my bad, ''Buyer Beware'', clearly even with reputable dealers.

    More to the point, if you're reading this Ferrari, may I make two suggestions before many proud F50 owners wake up to the same issue.

    Please either begin supplying oem exhaust systems or slightly more generous for us poor owners, allow cars which were originally Classiche but where exhaust systems have been ''lost'' to previous owners, keep their Classiche status, perhaps with a side note pointing out the change?

    PS: If you have a complete oem Euro spec exhaust in your storage cupboard, well done (I'm jealous). If you're the previous owner of my car and have kept it for a coffee table, please sell it back to me (the dealer said he's reaching out to the owner but I'm not holding my breath).
     
    Valerian, of2worlds, Rosey and 3 others like this.
  2. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    Nov 20, 2003
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    Interesting!

    Matt
     
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  3. Stryker1808

    Stryker1808 Rookie

    Jul 10, 2015
    29
    I would insist the Dealer replace the exhaust, or at the minimum split the cost of an OEM exhaust. They should be in a much better position to source one and to also protect their reputation.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  4. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
    76
    To hell with classiche!? You have your book, if you ever sell just show what isn't oem.
     
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  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    C, I think if we find you a standard Tipo Eu F50 exhaust, perhaps it can pay for itself in rental fees to other F50 owners who want to Classiche? ;)

    Seriously, I have some sources both within the factory and in Italy, I think we can find one, see your email.
     
  6. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3
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    You're amazing, will do. Thanks Joe.
     
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  7. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3
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    They claim to have zero knowledge of what happened. Do I believe them? Nope, they're too smart. My bad I didn't know to ask at the time.
     
  8. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3
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    True, the car is in outstanding condition and I use it happily; but it annoys me the car was sold as Classiche when its oem exhaust had gone AWOL. It's the lack of transparency that disappoints.
     
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Original exhaust and all ancillaries in possession of the owner should always be supplied at point of sale, and this ought to be insisted upon at the very least by the selling dealer. The conversation should have happened.

    Moving on, the funny thing is, with most of the cars with Tubis affixed, one would think it'd be easy to find an OEM exhaust!
     
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  10. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    We went through this a few months ago with an F50 we sold, it took some effort, but we reunited the car with it's complete OEM system

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  12. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    You nailed it. The problem with this nonsense is Ferraris are not ready for prime time. The classic example being a F40. This kink for originality is over the top. I can see a benefit for weeding out the fakey-do cars, but beyond that, who cares?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  13. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
    76
    Well a lot of people care. You can do A LOT on f40 to the point of the only thing oem be the engine block. Not necessarly bad but it can very well remove the spirit of the f40 engine. And if no one tells you wth is in place of the oem stuff, you will have a very fun time trying to figure out.
     
  14. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    You better do something about the brakes if you drive a F40.


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  15. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
    76
    Renew the lines, pads, brake fluid, check if the pistons are sticking, get the more modern disk version and brakes will be great as they were back then. All of this will pass classiche.
    Or just get the dk engineering brake setup for 17' and paint the caliper black.
     
  16. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    Do you want to drive the car, or look at it? If you want to drive it, almost every Ferrari ever made needs modifications.
     
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  17. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Out of curiosity, how much is an OEM full system going for?
     
  18. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
    76
    I agree(d) with you, but how much is too much? Lately I was introduced to another view, that made me question my previous beliefs.
    How much do the f40 faults make it all the better? The lack of low end boost and having that massive boost kick, the running rich, the hopping of the rear with bumps, the having to stand HARD on the brakes?
    It all just adds to the experience of driving the car.

    Fixing all of these is easier, but these quirks are part of what makes the car great, how much of f40 would be lost if you fixed all of these?
     
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  19. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I could be wrong, but I don't think Classiche concerns itself with how a car feels. It has becomes an academic exercise, i.e., figuring out what was oem or not. I remember Gerald Rouse once complaining about having to judge modern Ferraris at a car show. All he could do is take points off if the car was wearing a bar. These were brand new cars!
     
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  20. RedRacer

    RedRacer Formula Junior
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    I believe the factory can rebuild an OEM system, but for a price.
     
  21. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    A lot of people care, and with the values of these cars, the interest in originality is understandable.

    Exactly.

    How many F40s have you owned?

    I've owned 3.

    The brakes are fine if you are a competent driver and they are operating correctly.

    Exactly.

    Untrue.

    Exactly.

    I think that's the point of it.
     
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  22. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
    76
    I do believe too, one can upgrade without losing the f40ness while increasing reliablity.
    A quick example of a good versatile upgrade spec (sorry for the off topic camlet).
    Motec is probably the best of all mods after restoration. Much more cleaner running (richness = heat = destruction), avoid leaning, let you know how your car is actually running and what is wrong with it much more accuratly, over-run could be added. Can run better ignition too.
    A full inconel or 324ss exhaust with equal lenght headers and flatter design without crazy angles.
    This will help scavenge of fumes from the engine. This alone will not only increase power, but lower cylinder temps and overhall reliability.
    Both of these materials will allow ceramic coating and this will prevent more than half of the fire situations.
    A more modern reliable turbo can provide the same experience and less leaks and again, a bit more power and less temps and a bit of low end boost.

    A 6 piston set, the lm master cylinder and a well setup roberuta set (for usability). All of this is a lot but it can be set in such a way that the f40ness is still obvious and the oem will feel like something lesser.

    The only mod that will be harder to retrive to stock would be the motec but for someone that wants to put miles and have their car always running in proper condition, I think it's a no brainer as are the headers, but that will need a tune (as do cat deletes and v2 turbos) and not many weber/marelli iaw tuners around.

    Maybe the middle ground would be the best solution?
     
  23. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Karting

    Sep 7, 2012
    167
    Makes sense given the vast improvement in ecus since the 80's. Mine runs an m880. It did raise some concern with my motec guy about driving 16 injectors with 8 injector outputs. Clearly it's possible and works well assuming you don't have an injector fail but he wondered if a cosworth ecu driving individual injectors wouldn't be safer than the ubiquitous motec... any thoughts? Sorry off topic.
     
  24. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
    76
    #25 luigisayshello, Sep 16, 2018 at 3:52 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018 at 3:58 PM
    Make blanks injectors and run 8. Seriously. Are you running stock injectors?
    My struggle with cosworth, syvecs, newer magnetti mirelli, is the lack of tuners in my backyard. You are in UK so any of these, even stock (sierra cosworth guys) will have a lot of support. Motec are old but they work and are well proven, with lots of support.
    That's why i mentioned it.
     

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