When Is It Time To Change The Last Model In The "Vintage" Category?

Never. Vintage Ferrari´s will be until Daytona, there are a gap between Daytona´s and 348 IMO that are going to be "classics" in a future, but not vintage, and from the 348 and beyond, will never be any F car a Vintage. Just period of times, in 100 years, a Enzo will be just an Enzo, and a SWB, will be a Vintage as today.

Nick.

 

Julie,

Rob and Wayne can probably give you a more difinative answer but my understanding is FChat Vintage is defined as cars designed while Enzo had complete control of the factory (sold majority in 1969).

Classic does't have a category and is a bit more vague but I've always viewed Classic as the period where Mr. ferrari still had direct influence on the design post sale to Fiat.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Agreed.

 

+1

 

Agreed 100%.

 

And there you have it.

We all KNOW where to draw the line.

Vintage=Enzo Era.

Perfection.

D

 

Now how about the new Dino section?

 

This title was suggested by a friend not so long ago.I had never really given much thought to giving my collection a name. The "Golden Years" has been used numerous times before to describe numerous important historical periods of achievement.Now with this collection of 1300 of the finest,and not so, literary efforts on the period and 1182 individual files on a selection of important Ferrari sns. starting with 01C and going up thru the P4 competition machines the use of the term "Golden Years" seems to fit.This project was started sometime I think in 2005 and is on going.Ferrari Chat has contributed considerably and I am grateful to all who have contributed so much over the years. I am finally getting to actually read the books etc in the "literary" collection and I post my "brief book reviews" on F Chat. Again my sincere thanks to all who have knowingly or not contributed to this effort.Just for the record "tonga" is the name of the sailboat that my wife and I lived on for twelve years so my signature really should read tonga'screw.

 

Why 1966? Is the Daytona a mutt? Shall we exclude the 365GTC and QM? Shall we ignore winning the World Championship for sportscars in 1967?

I think it is best, certainly from a roadcar perspective (after all - we are in the roadcar section here), to adhere to the 'Enzo era' definition, which also marks a natural cut-off point between front-engined V12 flagships and rear-engined V12 flagships.

When I owned my Boxer I did find it slightly ridiculous that I could not bring my 365BB to events where the Daytona was allowed, even though it is a directly related, carburettored, engine on XWX tyres, but you have to draw the line somewhere. And the Boxer shape held out almost into Sonny Crockett territory.

From a sportscar perspective, and F1 also, I would include 1967 in the golden years. 1968 was crap, and 1969 not much better.

Onno

 

I would set the cutoff around 1969, as Art posted earlier.

And this is the first time I can hear tongascrew as something other than tonga screw!

Matt

 

Although I agree with the current classification, I also tend to also personally group the cars in terms of how they drive. Forgetting the very early cars for a moment, I've always felt that their driveability made a larger-than-iterative leap forward right around the mid 60's, with the departure of the live axle, and then again in the early 80s, when (to me) the cars I've driven really started feeling modern.

Perhaps it's a little off to talk about how well an old Ferrari handles, as everyone knows Ferraris primarily exist just to be polished and photographed.

 

Actually this has occurred to me on occasion.Thanks much.Sorry to have waited so long.Now regarding the cut off date. I actually use 1967 most of the time. For one reason the last sn.,by date of construction, I have in the 1182 research files, is 0862. I will let the likes of Michael Muller, Marcel Massini,El Wayne, Aardy and so many others, who have been at this for much longer, cover all the road cars.I have some of the early 250 PF road cars but none of the 250 PF series I, II.III, 250 Lussos,GTB,Superfast, Superamericas,GTS,250 GTE,330 GT 2+2,GTB4,275 GTBC/S,330/365GTC or the 206 Dino road cars.No open wheel formula cars.What's left are mostly the competition cars which include all the 250 TDF,250 SWB Berlinettas 250 Californias, the 500 Mondials,,750-860 Monzas 250 GTO, 250LM and the many other six and twelve cylinder front and mid engine machines of the period So many at F Chat have contributed I can't name them all.All these files are on hard copy and so if nothing else I don't have room or the time for any more. I am just now getting to start reading the books and I post my "brief book reports" on F Chat. The really good stuff will come shortly.Any questions? Just ask. tonga's crew.

 

Tonga´s Crew, Will be amazing to see that. As a legitimate reader of the fchat, not contributing is just because you know far more than me, and hope to retain that information forever. So, taking advantage of what you said, thank you, and all of the people that you named before.
I will be posted waiting to see it!

Nick.

 

Like the Tong'a Crew signature.

As far as 330 2+2 's go, Kerry's web site has all most all of them.

 

When I started I was just about where you are.I had been away from all of this since the mid 1960s.My wife and I did a three week bus tour in Italy which got me started. Then we had the 328GTB in Italy for four years which brought it all back. So when we got off the boat and came ashore, what would come next?I needed a project. First F Chat, which led to starting starting the collection which has become pretty much all consuming. So make a selection,ask questions and contribute. You will enjoy the ride. tonga's crew

 

Tonga´s Crew, I know this is the way that most of the people begins. Nice history you had, and nice wife who joined you on this trip! Now im making my own selections, reading, asking, but most of all, learning.
Believe me, im already enjoying too much the ´ride´.
Nick.

 

Yes, the cutoff date should not change. It marks not the passage of time but the end of an era, so the date should not change.

The local club, the Manila Sports Car Club, after much thought and discussion, settled on December 31, 1972 (with some run-ons) for what it calls "historic" cars. It used "vintage" some years before, but discontinued it because the term is defined by the Vintage Sports Car Club as ending in 1930, and also because most people equate "vintage" with "old," thereby putting pressure on moving the end date, as in the original post here. "Historic" is neutral and actually used by many "old-car" entities, including FIA and FIVA. MSCC needed to define the term for its concours and historic races.

Coincidentally, 1972 coincides with the end of the Enzo Era.

 

I'm not suggesting you change the term, El Wayne, but just wanted to note that the general understanding of "vintage" naturally encourages questions as that raised here - when do we move up the end date?

 

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER move up the end date.

The reasons for the end date have been explained over and over again in previous
posts.

It's the period before the road cars became in control of Fiat.

 

I completely agree with the current status quo but to be pedantic isn't the 365GTC/4 the first car to be launched under the control of Fiat and not Enzo? It is the first car with internal designation beginning F (F101) that has been used on the subsequent Ferraris?

 

I think the 365 GTC/4 was based on the Daytona chassis?