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When will the F12 reach the bottom of the bell curve?

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by VG221, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. Thecadster

    Thecadster Formula Junior
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    Apr 27, 2017
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    I saw you car in person when I was down in ATL finalizing my 812 spec. It’s magnificent. Pictures do no justice to the uniqueness of that leather. Wow! I can imagine the buyers remorse must be unrelenting.
     
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  2. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
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    Cool. Lots of eye candy in the FofA showroom. Congratulations on the 812. It’s my favorite car that I’ve ever owned. Hard to see how you improve on it.

    I agree that photos of Ferraris rarely do these cars justice.


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  3. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    I agree with you and in fact I've put it in a simplified way just to try to transmit a simple idea. I considered the price of a new 599 GTB to be €300 K in Germany because I was looking at the list prices from the period 2006-2012 and without extras they averaged € 260 K and then I considered € 40 K of options. In 2014 I was interested in buying a second hand 599 GTB and then I searched through many adverts of German cars and happen to save them. Below you'll find three German examples of cars from different years out of the many I used to arrive to that average price of € 110 K in 2014.
    Before I post any average price of a second hand Ferrari I normally go first to mobileDe or Autoscout 24 and look at the available cars for sale from where I take a random sample from the low, medium and higher prices segments making afterwards that average. This isn't a very scientific method but for the purpose of my posts here I find it indicative and that's the method I used to arrive to the F12 € 220 K average price.
     
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  4. Potenza430

    Potenza430 Karting
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    Oct 26, 2012
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    Magnificent!!!
     
  5. Adamas

    Adamas F1 Rookie
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    Jan 13, 2012
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    For over a year, I shopped every car listed and some not listed. I believe I recall seeing one car with an MSRP in the mid 350s, and very few (% wise) in the 360s- all the rest were higher. From what I can tell, the 325 MSRP is almost meaningless, as almost all of them were *at least* 10% over that.

    Mike
     
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  6. bobbyd

    bobbyd Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    699
    It’s not meaningless when one considers that with preowned cars options are valued at maybe 10 cents on the dollar. That’s why it’s so tough to sell a beautiful high option car like Bundy’s - as it’s value in the market is more determined by it’s mileage than it’s spec (true for all late model Ferrari’s). As the cars get much older then condition comes into play more, but as we are talking F12’s it’s all about miles a little about spec.
     
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  7. pj57

    pj57 Rookie
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    Dec 13, 2012
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    Case in point: 2017 F12 at Ron Tonkin. $453K MSRP offered at $299K. Very nice spec, and lots of warranty/maintenance remaining, but with 9,700 miles.
     
  8. WilliamB

    WilliamB Karting

    Feb 1, 2017
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    William
    Don't understand the 'but with 9'700 miles' above or the 'it's all about miles' remark above that! Are these superb cars only meant as 'eye-candy'? To park her in your garage, take a chair and look at it to keep the miles as low as possible? Is that all the enjoyment why one spend so much money for?
    Seen the number produced, it never will become a real rarity, thus not increase in value. So why keep it parked, just to minimize the loss of value (which will happen due to aging and newer models becoming available)?
    Therefore, my opinion, drive and take in all the car has to offer and forget about miles driven. Fully enjoy all ... this F12 engine can take it!
     
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  9. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
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    I never dreamed that 6,500 miles would be considered high-mileage on a 4-year-old modern car. Our F12 is mint, and these cars do much better mechanically with at least 1-2K miles per year than with just rare use. Ask any Ferrari mechanic.

    Yesterday, we took a 27% hit off MSRP when selling our 2018 488 GTB with only 320 miles. It sat on the authorized dealer lot for over 7 months. My recent experience is that low mileage isn’t necessarily helping sales or resale value that much, either.

    As throughout history with any commodity, it’s primarily about supply and demand. Base prices have risen considerably. To be fair to Ferrari, so has quality and the ability to spec a really beautiful car compared to something like the F430 which seems almost kit-car-ish in retrospect.

    Combined, this has led to many two-seat Ferraris costing nearly double what they might have just 10 years ago. I’m not sure that the market can easily absorb this price increase, and now the word is that Ferrari intends to push possibly further upmarket even with regular production models.

    As interest rates rise and Ferrari pushes for serial purchases to move product, I wonder about the ability of the market to absorb both increased cost and supply. Rapid depreciation may be the new normal for anything not limited to 500-1,000 units.


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  10. pj57

    pj57 Rookie
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    Dec 13, 2012
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    I agree these cars are meant to be driven. In my F12 search, I’ve found higher mileage cars whose histories I can track (Fchat members or CPO) ranging from $190s to low $200s. MSRPs in the $400+ range. I’m leaning toward this type of purchase. Best case scenario for me...a supercar I use as a daily driver. At those prices, I won’t be worried about depreciation regardless the miles I accumulate.
     
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  11. pj57

    pj57 Rookie
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    Dec 13, 2012
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    p.s. the sensible side of me says higher mileage F12 @ $200K. Drive the s#@# out of it...Same chassis and engine as the big ticket rides but...but Bundy’s Tailor Made spec is is beyond amazing! I suspect about the time I decide I really want it, someone else will steal it from me!
     
  12. gh0st0

    gh0st0 Formula Junior
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    Jul 2, 2018
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    Seems that the f12 hasn’t caught up with the ff as far as price point, though would be nice to see them sub 200k
     
  13. WilliamB

    WilliamB Karting

    Feb 1, 2017
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    William
    My dealer confirmed that interest for F12 remains high as the delivery times of the 812 are so long. Got several offers over the last couple of months but it is a simple "no, sorry" as I truly enjoy my F12.
     
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  14. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    The F12 is a car to keep William because is the last Ferrari and V12 non hybrid wearing the precious Pininfarina badge and one that is a true supercar of it's time. Despite having been produced around 4500 F12's, that privilege of wearing the Pininfarina badge is something that now eventually can only happen with future one-off Ferraris.
     
  15. WilliamB

    WilliamB Karting

    Feb 1, 2017
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    Fully agree with you Mario! That the value will not increase over the foreseeable time does not matter to me. The same counts for its milage ... I drive it very regular (apart from a few real winter months) as I don't care for the value others give. Very selfish to say but I bought it to have fun myself and that I won't when it's only parked in the garage :)
     
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  16. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    What you just wrote William summarizes also what I think. I don't care about the value and try to enjoy the car as much as I can. I'm also sure I'll never sell it and will be with me for the life time.
     
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  17. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
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    #92 Solid State, Jan 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
    Indeed. Also the last supercar designed under Sergio Pininfarina before his death and who was the company's namesake and had a long standing relationship with Enzo. I like that sort of stuff as it adds to the specialness of the car. Similarly, the last flagship Ferrari produced under LDM.
     
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