When will "Vintage" change?

The "Vintage" section of FChat now covers cars through the 365GTC/4 which was last produced in 1972. At what point does the Boxer become Vintage and then the 308, then TR, then 328 and so forth ... obviously at some point the 599 will be considered vintage...so, just how many new model cycles does it take for the category to change ... any ideas?

 

I would be surprised if the existing categories change too much. Remember, it used to be "Vintage", "Classic" and "Modern". The proposed change of the 355 from Modern to Classic (when was that? 2005?) caused consternation, and eventually the current organization. The forums are now based more on families of cars and less on the years.

As it is, when the next car rolls out, add a forum and nothing else has to move.

 

If the categories don't change as time marches on, we will have classes for Modern, Post Modern, Current and so forth, endlessly. We all like to believe that what happens in our life time sets the bar for the future, but history shows otherwise. Don't forget a Daytona was once considered a Modern car and now is considered Vintage...at some point it will be considered an Antique...the collector car market will continue long after we are all taking a celestial dirt nap... a 2025 Ferrari will be a Modern, Classic, Vintage and Antique car one day...my question is at what point does the category change? With the 599 replacement likely already being developed by Ferrari, I believe the time is now for the pre-330(166 to 275) cars to be re-categorized as Antique and Vintage change to 330 cars through Boxer with Classic covering TR through 355 leaving the 360 up to current being Modern...

 

In 15 years, a BB512i and TR will still be a BB512i and TR, and still in the Boxers/TR/M forum.
In 15 years, a 308 and Mondial will still be a 308 and Mondial, and still in the 308/328/Mondial forum.
In 15 years, a 612 and 599 will still be a 612 and 599, and still in the 612/599 forum.
In 15 years, whatever the current Ferrari model is will be in a model-specific forum, likely grouped by family.

The current structure doesn't require that anything move again, regardless of age. That was the whole point of getting rid of the Vintage/Classic/Modern format years ago.

 

I agree with the chronology, but I think there was a radical shift in the type of cars when they went to midengine from front engine 12s. Mr Ferrari said in the early 60s (paraphrase) the horse pulls the cart, it does not push it. I think the Fiat infuence started with the Daytona...look at how different a car it was from the 275s. I remember the FCA discussing if Daytonas counted as Ferraris (same with 308s later). Before you guys kick my a** about this I have had my Daytona for 33 years and no longer have a 275. By the time of the BB, Fiat was running the show.
This is not to say the midengine cars were not a step forward, but they are not the traditional Ferrari.

 

The collector car market in general of which Ferrari is a part is categorized with Antique, Classic and Modern classes . Should not FChat reflect how the general collector car market categorizes cars too...if not, why not?

 

I just hope I live long enough to see the 599 be considered vintage.

Maybe in the not too distant future we will have sections for fuel cell cars, etc. and all the old IC powered cars get one section!

DAve

 

Fchat reflects how Rob and the community feel things should be split. See http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100347 for the discussion/debate that occurred during the change to the current structure.

One strong advantage of the current structure is that there's less 'noise' for fans of each model. If you're interested in a 365 GT4 2+2 ,your conversations aren't drowned out by Dino or Daytona discussions in Vintage

 

According to a 599 Fiorano owner in this forum;
the 575M has become a vintage car already


that was a bold statement even tho I agreed.

 

I think most of us here will still be driving when the IC engine is a much a relic as carbs are now.

Once the hydrogen (or whatever comes next) engine outperforms IC on the track, I think it's likely we'll have a new category of Ferraris.

FWIW, I think you can lump the Boxer/308 into the '1970s' car category, as they were launched more or less concurrently, share similar styling cues ('70s wedge shape), and made mid-engined the standard for exotics. I see a pretty obvious line between the old round-headlamp/chrome era (e.g., 250 PF Cab) and the Boxer/308, no matter what you call the brackets.

There's also the idea that as we accumulate more automotive history we may have more categories, in the eyes of specialists. So, maybe the 599 will never be 'vintage' but a new category ("microprocessor"?)

And a ridiculous one. The 575 is carrying around more computers than a lot of 2008 cars.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_car ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antique_car ... http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/vintage

 

i went through this same conundrum with bmw's.
let's face it, god created the last bmw in 1976, when the 2002 was last produced.
i can remember the hoards of 3series owners who were offended by that statement.
life goes on. who cares how a car model stacks up in the great scheme of things.
if they still are driveable, then DO IT!
my gabriella is over 20 yrs. old. she is not a car category, she is a car to be driven.

i apologize for this diatribe, but the bmw-thing is a real mindset.how we categorize our
beloved ferrari marque in terms of chronology is being a bit smug and missing the whole point
of enzo's philosophy.



_________________________________
if you got 'em, smoke 'em.

 

Respectfully I beg to disagree. The Daytona was first shown at the Paris show in 1968, prior to the Fiat production takeover. The only Fiat influence was in the improvement of the production line. The Daytona continues the tradition of the 275GTB line with a 4 cam engine and torque tube, the model designation of the single cylinder, and the Pininfarina classical and curvilinear body design of a long nose with a short passenger compartment and truncated rear. It was an evolution of the 275GTB4 and as such one of the prototypes SN 10287 had the 275GTB nose.
You can consider the Boxer and 308 series as a radical revolution not only in the mid-engine mechanical layout but also in styling.
A better way to classify Ferraris is to divide them in 3 generalized groups: [1.] the Enzo era (when Enzo had total control) from the beginning up to and including the Daytona, [2.] the Enzo alive era (road car production was controlled by Fiat) from the Boxer to the F40, and [3.] the post-Enzo era (after 1988).
Of course further sub-grouping is warranted such as race cars, road and track cars and road cars and further sub-classifications as F-chat has nicely done for the various production runs such as 308/328, 360/430, etc.

 

I still do not agree that Ferrari's should be categorized differently than other marques...we don't separate other marques by who was the CEO at the time the car was made.

 

Until his passing Enzo had the majority share of Ferrari and called the shots, when a 4 door Ferrari was planned in the 80s Enzo was adament that a 4 door Ferrari should never be made and had the project cancelled. The Boxer is pure Enzo Ferrari as well just ride in one, technically negotiations began in 1968 to take a share of Ferrari who was at the time not in very strong financial shape so it gave Ferrari much needed capital.

If we want to get technical yes the soley owned Ferrari company ended with the 275GTB, the Daytona is as much a Fiat as the Dino which was made beginning in '68 as well with the plans of Fiats partial ownership of Ferrari to provide capital and manufacturing of the car.

 

I like the current set up. This way I can go into the 328 and TR sections and don't have to listen to 360 and F430 people discuss what colr brake calipers they should get.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. - by ?

We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. - by ?

I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. - by Douglas Adams

It just doesn't matter! - Bill Murray as Tripper Harrison in Meatballs www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZFU7X3Qjo

 

Enzo was unique and so were his cars.

 

I think the current setup allows people to find info on the model they are interested in more easily than when everything was lumped together. If any changes are made maybe break up Vintage into a few more sections more model specific. maybe into a Pre 1960 and up with the Daytona's having their own section.

 

Ferrari is not like other marques, and Enzo Ferrari was not like other CEOs.


Julio

 

I also like the current setup.

The appreciation of vintage cars developed at a certain point in history (somewhere in the 80s?).
Before they were only old cars.
IMO it is not said, that todays F-cars ever become classics like the nowadays vintage cars.
Rules that are derived from history are not necessarily valid in the future.

Perhaps in 20 years CO2-emitting motors will get such a bad image that they will be condemned by society...
Like all of you I hope this will never happen....

Till

 

The Daytona was designed in 1967.

 

The 275 GTB is not the end. There are models between the 275 GTB and the Daytona, which can clearly be defined as 100% Ferraris: The 330 and 365 series. There is nothing Fiat about a 330 GTC.

The Daytona design is from 1967. That and the car's configuration clearly put it, IMHO, into the 100% Ferrari category, although you are right about its manufacturing and the Fiat capital involved.

The Dino is a Dino: an honorary member of the classic Ferrari community, but not a Ferrari.

Cheers,

Julio

 

but if your interested in 328 chat all you'll get is "noise" about 308's and mondials though.