When your boss is an A$$ or just nuts ??

Uhh, wouldn't that make you the boss...kinda?

 

There are still 85 percentage points floating around. I would determin if I deserved the "promo" or raise. If so and no other person there should be in the running for it, I would have a meeting, to see if I had done somthing wrong or if my work isn't of good quality. If he says "no everything's fine", then I would ask if he had any ideas about who would fill the new opening. If he says "I can't answer that". Then tell him you want the job, you are qualified... etc.... If he hints "I don't think you're in the running", then flat out ask him why. If he says "I still can't comment", take your 15% and put it in a business where you don't have to bend over. Good luck.

 

I'm guessing this question should include about 3 or 4 more paragraphs to help explain a bit more. I feel there is a lot missing. Could you be a bit more specific? How did you get the 15%?

 

Rick,

You still didn't answer how you (and the other VP) got the 15%. Did you buy into the company when it was started? Was it part of a compensation package? Is the owner the founder? When he retires is he going to sell his shares or hold them? Are you in a position to purchase them? You realize management doesn't always mean ownership. Your company has two VPs. Do you both handle the same responsibilities? Were you both hired at the same time? Is there any other family of the owner involved in the business? Is the owner staying on as CEO? Is there an active board of directors? What does your company do? Could you do it better on your own? Would the other VP be interested in purchasing your shares?

All these questions (and then some) I'm asking so I / we might be able to help you better.

 

Anytime you are working for "the man" you are going to run into this. The only answer is "be, the man." If that's not in the cards for you then you pretty much have to suck it up until the guy quits or is fired. Good luck.

 

Rick, maybe he's sizing you up. Let the other 15% VP act like an ass-kissing suckup and be yourself. If the owner is sharp enough, he'll see through the act. If you get riled up, you'll only make yourself look stupid. On the otherhand, if this is the kind of guy the owner wants to take over the reins, then the company is probably fvcked.

 

Rick, I'm familiar with the situation (without the ownership points). Be happy to discuss with you off the board. Feel free to PM me.

Cheers,

Brian

 

Not sure what the exact fiduciary duty laws are in Canada, but as a majority shareholder the 70% guy would be skating close to the wind in both the US and Australia (the two specific countries in which I've dealt with this stuff) if he is pulling stunts that do not benefit all shareholders no less than equally. I would expect that when you were granted your shares that there is some sort of shareholders agreement or buy-sell agreement that governs your shareholdings, and this ought to be a separate commericial transaction from your employment if it is a true 15% shareholding.

What to do will depend on what you believe the post-current-president scenarios are but that is what I would step back and look at. Work out the possible outcomes - I am curious as to how much of his 70% holding the current president is selling/granting. There may very well be a problem if he grants favorable terms to one shareholder and not all shareholders in a "class" which would be both of you 15% holders equally.

I'd need a bunch more information about how your deal works and what is being proposed but this ought to give you something to think about. So often there are situations like this and the majority shareholders still believe they are 100% to the detriment of the minority shareholders and you canna do that willy-nilly....

Cheers
Kevin

 

Sounds like an ongoing PITA with a 45%/40%/15% post-retirement shareholding if I am reading your post correctly.

Thinking non-linearly for a moment, if the other VP gets the 25% first, then either your current 15% increases in value without you having to work any harder than you are already, or you get together with the 45% guy and chuck him out/buy out his shares and you are on 55% and majority holder. Might be a crafty way to structure it, and end the jerking around that seems to be happening at the moment.

Just a thought if you're taking a longer view and want to stay there...

Cheers
Kevin

 

Rick,

With the information you provided, it sounds like he is one generous owner. I'm surprised anyone would give up 30% of a company as bonus compensation in one year. I thought he might want to stay on as CEO and that's why I asked. If he has two candidates as his successor I'm sure this issue is weighing heavy on him. It seems you both just want to be given the company and you tell me he has children that "float from time to time". I have to question this gentleman's thought process if he does this. I see a great deal of "salesman" in your comments and although you mention you want to be President for "The role" and "for your long term career" , I don't see any mention of why it would be best for the company, other employees, or the owner. I think that is what you should focus on, not just because you want it. Be careful what you wish for......your first priority in a Presidential role should be the company, your employees, then you a far third. The other VP is older, has responsibilities in operations, and is willing to buy / invest in the company - all strong points. If you think you should be seriously considered for this role then my suggestion is to ask to be involved in management decisions. See if the owner will allow you to shadow him during some of his tasks. Let him see your interest and concerns for the company. I think at some level he will be looking for someone he feels will move the company in a positive direction. You need to show him that person is you.

 

1) You were given the 15%, you did not pay for it out of your pocket. Your boss seems like a very generous person. IMO, the 15% was a long-term gift to keep you as a valued asset to the company. As your company grows, so does the value of your 15%. Don't B&M about that!

2) If your last 2-3 years were profitable, you may be in a position to make a strong case for a bonus. Do your homework first before confronting him. Have the numbers and know the answers to questions he will toss back in your lap. Be diplomatic.

Keep in mind that your boss may have put quite a bit of his personal money in the company to float through a bad year or two that he may not have made a lot of noise about. That would be the LAST thing you would want to get ripped about. Just don't lose sight of the fact that without him, you would probably not have a job there.

 

Very nice comments Peter. I hope this guy understands what you are saying, but I have my doubts. The title of his message is "When you boss is an A$$ or just nuts." This is when the boss gave him 15% of the company.

Also his profile says "self employed." Go figure!

I have come across employees like him and the best solution is to just fire them. Saves a lot of trouble and the look on their face is priceless when you ask them to walk out the door and never come back.

 

1.if you own 15% of a company and work there full time I think you can say you are an owner so you are self employed.

2. it sounds like you know how to sell if you arnt happy, leave and open your own.

3. I dont think its THAT generous to give 15% to a guy who took my company from 2.5 million in sales to 10 million. I would thank him greatly.
and be happy i was along for the ride.

john

 

Rick,

You are responding much too defensive here. It is not appropriate behavior for a Pres., in my opinion. When you ask for advise you should expect opinions that you do not agree with. How you deal under pressure and adversity is of utmost importance. I think some people here have tried to say that introspection is in order. Obviously your value, as well as any employee's value must be considered in any decision. But, overvaluing yourself could be a fatal mistake. You might not want to hear / read it, but you might not be the best candidate for the position. You must look at this from an outside perspective and ask yourself are you truly the best person for the job - not just better then the other V.P.. As a 15% owner you should recognize the importance.

I wish you the best.........

 

Big red,

Read the first two lines in post #1. First you call you boss an A$$, then you say he is being unreasonable without offering any explanation. The third line is no praise either. I am sorry to say, but this does not exactly give a very good impression of you.

You say that he should give you another 25%, for free, and in a subsequent post you mention the "piss off" factor that can have consequences for both parties etc. Again, not something an owner would like to hear from an employee.

You say that you would really like to take the helm for the role and immediately after that you say that "the money is always on top of the list." So what is it, money or the role?

All this while not a single word on how others (your boss, other VPN, and 18 sales reps) have contributed to the growth of the company. A successful business needs people to work together as a team and is very rarely the work of just one person. Your post gives the impression that you are the centerpiece and that reduces your credibility.

If you think you are so valuable, tell your boss that he should give you an extra 25% or you will leave. See what happens. Actions speak louder than words.

My response was not an attack on you, I am trying to show you the flip side of the coin and not trying to belittle you. Your particular situation is not that uncommon and I had to face it a while ago. What I found out is how easily most people can be replaced (including the owners). Don't overvalue yourself and be humble.

Lastly, Caltech and Carnegie Mellon PhDs do not run coffee shops.

 

TRUE

 

Hey Rick, thanks for the kudos. Hope my experiences help. I think you and I are of a like mind. 12 months ago, I would have said I was replaceable. These days, it would take a significant investment for my company to replace me and it's not one that they would make.

 

I've been there done that.
The fact of the matter is that you are at best a miority share holder and do not carry much weight by virtue of ownership. I too would bite the bullet or bail. I found the legal avenue to be less than satisfying. And when the smoke clears, the Majoity shareholder does what he wants, it is still after all His Company..