Where are all the Pebble Beach Photographs?!?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 134282, Aug 21, 2017.

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  1. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    Do you really want to make a 900 pages thread ??

    I don't want to prejudge the owner of this spectacular 250 LM, but he must be completely blind to drive this horror !!!
     
  2. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    #177 Aardy, Sep 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    #178 tomgt, Sep 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Who are the judges?
    Are they ex coachbuilders or ??
    See photo: what are these three! guys doing? See also video on ferrarism facebook
    Experts on P cars?
    Just wondering what they are doing and on what base they give a car the points.
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  4. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    Thanks to Peter, we know now they are owners of a Ferrari and they already have restored it...




    I don't want to prejudge the owner but...
     
  5. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    A sham
     
  6. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    good! a new thread, Rob will like it.
     
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  8. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO Formula 3
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    But Aardy said maybe NOT a good idea.
     
  9. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    #183 Aardy, Sep 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Not a good idea for what ? Making a new thread about how the cars shoud be ??

    It's a very good idea but I'm affraid the work is too big.

    An example : at Pebble Beach this year, who was able to see that the gear shift was not like original in the metallic blue 212 Inter Ghia convertible ??

    (left : 2017 Pebble Beach / right : 1952 Geneva Show)

    I continue ??



    I don't want to prejudge the owner but...
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  10. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof Formula 3

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    So you are now down to the colour of a gear knob according a black and white photo???
    Did you recently see any of these cars in person or are you just judging from photos sitting at home?
    Yeah, they should use you...you are obviously the only expert...If you have a photo to compare with;)
     
  11. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof Formula 3

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    May I ask what is wrong with that? The colour?
     
  12. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    It is perfect! A wonderfull recreation of the original front; all lines, curves, scoops and intakes are just like when it left the factory in 1962. It could not have been done better.
     
  13. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    It has been a common joke for years that there is a group of people you should never invite to serve as a judge. There are people who simply know too much and if they don't want to play along, it is a no-no.
     
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  15. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof Formula 3

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    So you think you guys "know too much"?
    And who said anything about inviting? Sending over ten pictures should be enough for some to judge the car as this is obviously what they usually do ;)
     
  16. kare

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    Too much to play along.

    "Pirelli calore" stickers glued on top of all types of hoses in engine compartments alone, are too much for me. At minimum it should be required that the hoses these stickers are glued upon were of correct type, but you see those stickers on all sorts of rubber hoses.
     
  17. TTR

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    #190 TTR, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
    Interesting comment. I apologize for veering further off the subject title, but I'd be very curious to hear/read how, other than obvious, like the "calore"-designation should be only used on coolant/heater applications, should one define a "correct type" hose ?

    For example, after personally documenting, observing & working on many 365 GTB/4s (Daytonas) I've become to think that as many as 3, perhaps even 4, different heater hose brands were used during 365 GTB/4 production and all appear to have different appearance, reinforcement strength, wall thickness, etc details which most cannot be accurately matched in proper combination by any modern heater hose types currently available, including those from some of the same OE manufacturers.
    Obviously, at least in my mind, even if New Old Stock hose matching to a specific cars production timeline was to be found still available, it would likely be 4+ decades old and therefor not practical or safe to use in a vehicle intended to be driven/used.

    Other than having any and all parts or components for each car made/remanufactured from scratch, would anyone care to share how to they see this and/or tens of thousands of similar details should be appropriately handled to achieve most authentic restoration ? Keep in mind, most post-war automobiles are/were made of way over 100.000 individual pieces.

    And yes, I've spent way too much time researching (& struggling with ?) this and numerous other obscure details on variety of vintage cars I've restored or worked on in past 3+ decades and have come to realize that I've only scratched the surface and therefor I might not be in best position to criticize or judge anyone else's restoration or cars, be it on the concours fields or i-net forums.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize, how much I don't know" - A.E.
     
  18. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

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    Highly interesting and informativ! Thanks! I saw the wonderfully mellowed car in 2012 several days during the Serenissima Run and cannot understand what (and why) had to be ‘restored’ again. Any idea of the background?
     
  19. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    Of course I have seen in person a very large number of vintage ferrari.
    I have plenty of boxes full of analogic photography, long time before digital. I could make books with all the vintage pics I have.
    Sincerely, you missed your vocation. You should have been a lawyer for your friends, you would probably have gained better your life than with photography. I know what I mean. I work in the legal community...
     
  20. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie
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    Guys, don't let this whole thing slide into the canyon of personal insults. The discussion is fundamentally interesting as long as it is about the cars.
     
  21. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr F1 World Champ
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    +1
    But I wonder if Rob he s the owner of Fchat today?
     
  22. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr F1 World Champ
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  23. Lusso123

    Lusso123 Formula Junior
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    +1
     
  24. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof Formula 3

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    I am not in the mood to discuss any further on this level...so I wish you armchair experts a lot of fun staring at your analog pictures dreaming of the past when the owners and restorers were so much better ;)
     
  25. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    C'mon! You know very well that people are sloppy by nature and that all kind of "quickies" are pulled on people who don't really know and opt to follow blind trust instead - especially if they have a lot of money in their hands.

    For me it is crucially important to point out that these cars were originally very beautiful with amazing attention to detail and that this beauty is no longer there if we accept joe-average-down-the-street to redesign these cars.

    In the end we may have a Ferris Bueller (Modena GRP-replica) on the lawn and people will keep praising how amazingly beautiful car the California Spider really is. It is already happening on the internet and I think it is very important to take action against this.
     
  26. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    #199 kare, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
    Wise words and I do fully agree.

    The problem with restoration (for me) is that these cars were originally industrial products, made by common workers and sold to customers for a profit. Now they are pieces of art rebuilt by artesans who spend enormous amounts of time and money to get everything "right". I do accept "over-restoration" and sort of see the restored cars to represent a version "how these cars would deserve to have been built in the first place". I appreciate IAC/PFA-level restorations, but as always get annoyed when everything is not in balance with the chosen level.

    For me the balance is very important. If one chooses to maintain an unrestored car, my advice is to clean the rusty and dirty spots a little - and to avoid using too shiny new parts. It's all about maintaining and improving the balance. Same for top level restoration; if you go to Pebble Beach with a 100% restored car, everything should be taken to that same level. Therefore seeing cars with incorrect grille shapes makes me sick. Therefore I don't like the Pirelli stickers. I don't really appreciate - or care - if all the hoses are 100% accurate to original etc. but forgering "Pirelli Calore" by applying stupid looking stickers to a Chinese market hose is ridiculous when everything else looks perfect!
     
  27. TTR

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    #200 TTR, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
     

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