where are the driver Dinos?

i am very familar with the car here in houston. it is overpriced. the guy that restored the car was a retired ferrari mechanic and he did it to keep busy, so most of the restoration was with blood , sweat and tears. there are several things i don't like about this car. having said that, it is a nice car. the price is optimistic. he put it on ebay and it didn't even get one bid. the seller is a credible guy. the interior of my 72 coupe was used as a guide to redo the interior of this car. although this car has been "restored", it isn't a show car. it is a nice solid car that would look as if you bought it new. most of the show cars have long since surpassed any quality that existed when it was produced. having said that, this car is still overpriced in todays market.

 

Jim.

I also talked to this owner about this car.

It is restored to driver condition.

Given the market, I think $80-85K tops for the car.

I can't remember whether it has books and tools. It was a while ago that we talked. That would of course effect the price.

There are still cars out there to be had at reasonable prices (based on the current market) it just takes more digging than before or a network of folks who know you are looking. The more people you talk to, the more cars you'll eventually be told about.

I've come across two or three in the past twelve months that I passed on that I now regret, but that's all Monday morning quarterbacking. If I'd known then what I know now, I would have gotten at least one of those cars.

Dave

 

the houston car has no tools or books and has other "issues" with it's past life. it isn't a good car to use to determine what the current market is.

 

Also the dealer listing it seems to have an optimistic valuation for some of the other stuff he's selling too.

'97 Porsche C2 for almost $60K is a stretch by maybe $20K.

so it would reason that he's a bit high on the dino, too. Which is not shown on his site.

shawn, you can still spend $50K to $100K for a GT, and maybe $80K up to $130K for a GTS, depending on condition and content, don't you think?

Maybe we should just write a buyers guide, showing condition, options, etc and where these should be. there seems to be athread on this about once a month. Of course price seem to move significantly on a monthly basis right now, too.

dave

 

With a "basket case" GTS trading hands in the 100,000 range recently, a good driver for 125,000 sounds like the Market. As for a GT that would put the value closer to 90-100,000.
Just my 2 cents worth

 

At $100K, we can talk about you owning my GT when it comes back from the paintshop.

Well maybe not.

Here's my (hypothetical) for sale ad.

1972 US Spec Dino 246GT. Red over tan/black Daytona interior. A/C - it works P/W with new motors. Completely rebuilt motor less than 5,000 miles ago, gearbox rebuilt this fall, new shocks, springs, bushings last year. New interior (Daytona seats, door panels and carpet), dash is getting 1980 vintage mousehair put on, bare metal respray with ALL the rust removed. Engine and front compartments detailed and repainted too. Tools, jack, warning triangle and books (including original warranty card) and original ignition and door keys. 60,000 miles on the car. Everything works on the car as it should. But, it is missing the US spec air pump.

All records since I've owned it, minimal prior history available. No signs of collision damage found during repaint.

Won a platinum at a regional FCA show last year.

So, in the current market, is this a $100K car? I guess it is if someone's willing to pay that much for it, maybe more.

DM

 

Less than five years ago, my local mechanic was working on a GTS Dino that I would consider a 'driver' - faded paint, a small dent on the drivers door, no real 'restoration', etc. It had Daytona seats, was Maroon/tan, and was for sale for $45K......they're out there....

 

Dave -

I'd deduct $9000 for lack of a clock hang tag and proper wax paper bag for the Omera keyfob.

 

I agree with What Mike says. Get hooked up with your local mechanic. There was a red 246GT that came though my mechanic's shop a year or so ago. Unrestored runner, been stored for many many years. Definitely no show car but original and presentable, it sold after work in the 50K range.

These kinds of cars are never advertised, you have to be in the right place at the right time.

 

Market's up 30% on Dino's, at least according to FML, so those numbers are a little out of date.

And, there's a very interesting article in Sports Car Market about the cost of restoring a Dino.

you can spend $40K, you can spend $140K, you can spend $200K, at least accoring to Sheehan, who wrote the article.

DM

 

HA!!! I have a clock tag!!! HA HA..

I don't have the fob, or the freakin' bag, unfortunately.

I do have a beautiful repro that I'll toss in, though.

DM

 

Dave, I'm bidding $101k for your car!

 

I watched a repeat of dream car garage recently with Chris Parr's 246GT. Value estimate of $70K to $80K. Ha!
Similarly, the black RM auction car at $85K (plus $5K commission) is no longer relevant. The market is climbing fast. Those who have these cars want to keep them (and enjoy them), and an upward market only adds to the incentive, thereby further reducing available cars (and so on, and so on, .....)

Dave: I don't think you would sell your car because what would you possibly replace it with. Having said that, when you get your car back from the restoration (can't wait for the pics), I think the market on it will be NORTH of $100K.

p.s. 1973 246 GTS at RPM in Vermont for $135K (and they are not known for inflating prices!).

 

Three years ago, I bought my GT for $40K. It needed "some" work. Here are the pix!

Still, glad I did it, and would do it again tomorrow. Same car now, same condition as when I bought it? Probably $70K.

DM
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dave - those seats look familar.

as for values, keep in mind the sheehan/fantasy junction car isn't the average "basket case". it is a solid car that needs a paint job and assembly. furthermore, it comes with all the hard to find goodies. those goodies are worth $12-15k alone, based on ebay pricing, if you can find them - which you can't. it has taken me years to dig these things up and they aren't easy to find (notice how few goodies have come up on ebay in the last 3 months?).

the black auction car is a problematic car as it was misrepresented at auction. search for the threads. it was represented as an original chairs and flares coupe - it isn't. i even posted the original sales invoice demonstrating that. it was sold high based on misinformation.

the houston car is a great car for someone who wants to drive around a new-looking dino, but it won't win any awards and i would highly suggest that anyone look at it good before making an offer. don't get me wrong, it isn't a bad car, it just isn't worth $114k. ray joseph, the seller, is a straight shooting guy - as much as that can be said for being in car sells (i am only kidding). in all seriousness, houston is a small market for older or vintage cars. ray has been in the business for along time. you don't survive by screwing people as most of his customers are repeat customers. his asking price is too high. i made him an offer, he didn't accept. i made him another offer and he called me, but i haven't had that much time to mess with it, with the holidays and work.

as for dino values........ that's the magic question. i think the values people are thinking are way too high. these aren't daytonas. they are great cars, but not daytonas (even though i think the dino is a better looking car). until some cars hit the market, it is hard to say. there is a reason why the gstaad dino's didn't sell for eye-popping numbers.i think the ebay dino that last sold was sold for $72k and it was a coupe. a really nice coupe should be in the high $70's to low $80's, unless it has something to push it above that (ie- books, records, goodies, etc)

a nice spyder should bring about $10-15k more. the gap between the spyders and coupes has narrowed from what i can tell. and for chairs and flares - deduct money as it is most likely a hatchet job that screws up the car. unless you have an original car, don't pay more for this option. remember chairs was one option and flares was another. most cars that have one don't have the other. also, just because it has campagnolo wheels doesn't make it a flares car.

 

My car was in driver condition for the first 5 years that I owned the car. The paint had some cracks in it. But from a ways back, it still looked great. It wasn't until I took an assignment overseas that I took that opportunity to strip the body and repaint the car.

 

Probably priced correctly, but as a seller I'd wait until late spring as prices might continue increasing (or surge!) by then.
Missing ignition R1/R2 resistor switch by idle cam stop.

 

the dino that sold on ebay for 72k was a nice driver, but no tools, no books and LOTS of aftermarket parts. also it had some rust issues. lots of interest though at 70+ range.

there is something to be said for supply and demand. my argument is that the demand hasn't caught up yet b/c you can still get a 330 GT for sub 150k and a Daytona coupe for just under 200k. if you break the 100k barrier for a classic f-car, i would suspect that most buyers are willing to consider spending 150 on something like 330 gtc. outside of that, at anything else close to sub-100 from the 60s 70s will be a 2+2= totally different experience!

i.e. pretty soon the only "reasonably priced" classic f-car will be the dino. sure you could buy a c/4 or a 365 2+2 for about the same money, but, at the end of the day, do you really want the clown lips or queen mother nick-names hanging over your f-car???

 

Look at the availability of parts and technical support for the Dino - there are several that specialize in the Dino. It is easy to see that these cars are going to be running for a long time!

 

All points well made. I am privileged and lucky to own, love, and reguarly drive both a Dino and a GTC (02224 and 11385). The experiences are indeed completely different, and both awesomely great. But in my personal opinion, my Dino will never be worth more than my Ferrari: nothing in the motor world will ever beat the charisma, history, and uniqueness of a Colombo V-12. Hey, let them BOTH rise!

 

Julio, amen my brother!