Where did Maserati go wrong?

Just so you are aware, Ferrari engines are belt driven and have been since 1975. Now that the 430 uses a version of the Maserati V8 they are chain driven. The 360 uses belt driven cams.

 

The point isn't the design.

The point is that the name has been poisoned here, with a series of crappy machines, bad dealer networks, constant restructuring and poor support. Yes, Maserati was great in the 50s and 60s and early 70s, but that was a long time ago. The new cars are decent too, but FIAT is just the latest in a long line of temporary owners. How can any buyer know that there is going to be support for their car in 5 years? How about 3 years? Even FIAT can't decide how to build and market them.

I really respect the Maserati name, but you'd have to bleed red, white and green to buy a new one right now.

 

FYI the gransport is re-designed in-house by Frank Stephenson, not pinin.

 

thx for that bit of info.now i know who to hate!
maserati have always been purveyors of superb 2nd tier sportscars(re: jaguar,
porsche 911 series,etc) and have always been designed by some legend;
be it Marcello Gandini(khamsin,shamal,ghibli 2,quattroporte 2,4.),
Giorgetto Giugaro(ghibli,bora,merak,3200gt) or by fine design houses
such as touring,bertone,etc.
so who the f@$* is frank stephenson?
oh yeah,the BRILLIANT dude who disfigured the already challenging enzo into the
FXX and if i'm not mistaken the "unique" 612.
we need art in cars,not "design".audi got the ball rolling with its teutonic simplicity and taut lines,but the great afforementioned artistes need to return!pininfarina seem to be on their own,and even they have to make ends meet by designing korean econo-boxes!
if everything keeps being designed in-house,car design will remain stagnant,
in fact cars will keep looking backwards for inspiration.
remember;the countach did not resemble the miura whatsoever,nor did the
ghibli resemble the 5000gt.yet both are design legends.

 

couldn't agree with you more,however try telling that to the boys at porsche!!!
my humble plan for maserati was to attack on 4 fronts:
1)bmw m3 rival-v6/v8 front engine,rwd/awd 4seat coupe.$50-60k
2)m5/rs6/e55 rival-pseudo luxo-barge,v8/v12 front-engine,rwd/awd.$70-80k
3)gallardo budget edition.v8 mid engine,rwd/awd.$70-80k
4)3200gt successor-v8,front engine,rwd/awd luxury coupe.$75-80k

 

nice try again, but frank stephenson did not designed the 612.

the 612 is designed by ken okuyama of pininfarina, as with the QP.

 

I hope you are wrong, for Maserati's sake.

But your point is right - Fiat still don't have any clue on what to do with Maserati. Is it an Aston competitor? A Porsche competitor? A top-tier BMW/Merc competitor? At the present time it's trying to be all of these things and none of these things at the same time, the strategy is a complete shambles. IF they aimed clearly for one niche of the market and geared their quality, marketing and engineering efforts for a CLEAR AIM then they would succedd. What they are doing now is just wasting resources while uselessly procrastinating the long-needed replacement of he coupe/spyder.

 

Ya but the new generation V8's are chaidriven.....

 

See now you've listed a host of bad moves instead of picking on a mostly irrelevant one like that F*cking Chrysler! But frankly, most buyers of the coupe don't know all those details and for that matter they don't the good stuff either!

I think you're dead on. They (Ferrari included) don't know what the F they're doing. Enough effort and money was spent this time around it's just the path they chose wasn't correct and the car hasn't been a big hit yet over here. I wouldn't give up yet.

Bob S.

 

The belt isn't the big deal on the older Maser engines. It's the valve adjustment which is also gone now.

I did the belt on my GOC racer this last year and it was stupidly more complicated than it should have been. The old 3 valve Biturbo was a lot easier. I probably need a valve adjustment now and that IS going to be interesting as it involves retiming everything if you want to maintain maxmium racing performance. So I'd love to have the chains and hydraulic valve lash.


BTW, what's chaidriven? Is that some new Asian engineering method??? ;>)

Bob S.

 

QUOTE "6) Boring styling. Yes, that's in here twice."

Its like a sexy woman..... the better she looks, the more crap you will take and still enjoy the ride.

Maser, would've had a line around the block if they made a SEXY looking car with a Ferrari engine and a sub $120 price tag.

They failed, that's why Ferrari gave them back. And if you think it was a up-hill battle when they had Ferrari on their side, wile Ferrari was winning every race in F1 ( that's your marketing)..... its all but done now! Stick a fork in Maser.

It was all about looks. Maser could have been a star with a 308 or TR like blockbuster design! Something that made you say "hollysh!t"....but they chose to go with something bland and they won't get a second second chance like they just had ever again. The moon and stars where all set for Ferrari/Maser and now that time has passed.

I'll prove my point.
Anyone want to quit their job and become a Maserati salesman?

 

And just who was it that was in charge of Maserati that gave us what you you call boring sytling? So if we are to understand you correctly, you are saying that Ferrari messed up Maserati?

 

I don't think that proves your point about them being dead.
It's rather meaningless but you do have good other points all of which have been made over and over again.

We don't need convincing, someone else does ....

Bob S.

 

They'd never be able to do what you're asking at those price points. They'll be closer with Alfa if they ever get going. Number 3 is totally absurd, #4 possible with less luxury and with a cheaper V8, #2 forget it at that price and #1 is off by about 10-15K.

Those are just my guesses but four (4) new cars at once!
I don't think so.

Bob S.

 

Please bear in mind that during this "renaissance" it was Ferrari that was dictating Maserati's course: design, marketing, image, etc. A look through the official books & brochures make it clear that Ferrari was not interested in creating a rival for itself, particularly at a significantly lower price. So Maserati was intentionally designed to appeal to a somewhat older, more mature, less at-the-edge clientele. In one of the publicity books was the comment, I believe by Luca de M himself, that [rich] fathers drive Maseratis, their [rich] sons Ferraris.

So Maserati could only have so much power, be only so wild, so exotic-looking.

That being the case, I (as a former 2002 Cambio owner) think that the cars were and are wonderful. Comfortable, elegant, excellent power & handling. I myself had only one problem, which in my case was enough to make me sell the car, which was the paddle-shifting system, to which I could never get used. And when I test-drove a 6-speed, my impression was that it was a clunky, awkward transmission suitable for a 1950s pickup truck. [Others here have liked it fine.]

If Maserati offered the Gransport with a good manual 6, I'd probably be right there today.

 

Besides the now very old racing heritage, Maseratis were primarily much better built GT cars than Ferraris. That continued through the 1970's. Not every old Maserati GT car was a knockout in the looks department. But as a re-entry into the upper market for Maserati I guess this one just wasn't exotic enough.


Now it's interesting that you mention not liking the 6 speed. There was someone else saying that and yet a couple of others had good experiences. One was after a major adjustment of the linkgae I think?

What's going on here? Is it just a bad linkage design or adjustment? Is it just a bad gearbox?

Bob S.

 

I think you nailed it! I think what you've suggested is what is going to happen.

I would of course wonder why an american engine in a MAserati would be a bad thing..ie..450 LS2 motor that costs less than squat! or a six speed paddle shifter automatic transmission would be awesome...AND INEXPENSIVE..(how about the Corvette C6 Z06 LS7 motor which they could buy at retail at 12 grand! LOL

but I agree...Maserati won't do it and I agree...

Just take the Chassis from Alfas upcoming lineup..Take a V8 shortblock..Add on a nice set of DOHC's ..consider GM's six speed automatic for luxury buyers or an even better idea? BUY Audi's future production model of the DSG..

Thats really the only tranny Maserati needs.. A dual clutch sequential shift.

PS..I was only kidding about the GM motor and tranny thing. I know it would be sacralige..

 

I beleive Ferrari used a GM automatic tranny for the 412's... I think Rolls used then also although the seal was lousy hence the leaking issues...

 

As an a quasi industry insider such as yourself- I agree with you. The platform sharing is already happening, Enzo/MC12, the engines and transmissions on the other cars.

I think the Maserati GranSport and new "Dino" (front engine V8) will be on the same platform, and the 600imola will be on the same platform as Maserati's new, larger, two door door version of the QP, perhaprs it'll be the "DuoPorte." An SUV is apparently also in the works. There will be two common engines, V8 and a V12 between both brands.

The whole Maserati vs Ferrari arguement will be like Audi vs VW, Lexus vs. Toyota.



That having been said there are really good times ahead for Ferrari and Maserati, there will be a lot of new product and more volume, it'll be good for the short term, but it will devalue the brand in the long term. The same way Lambo, Bentley, and Aston Martin branding is sliding even thought they are building some very cool cars.

Also if Ferrari does end up going public they have to answer to wall street, which is a whole different set of corporate priorities. The Maserait/Ferrari split is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors, by that I mean it won't have much impact on the big picture, in the end they're all under the FIAT corporate umbrella and shareholders will ultimately deside the direction that these global brands are going to go in.

 

Honestly, I love my Maserati. Lowered 2 inches, upgraded Ecu., straight pipes, nice rims from HRE, 490hp sitting on 2300lbs but regrettably 390 rear end. She is as wild as any Ferrari and maybe allot more violent at time. I often race Mr. Phantom in the 360 every chance I get. My car is a direct descendant of the Trofeo Maserati and I could never be happier that I have 1 of 3 made. And what makes it all even better, is it is a Chick’s car. We have both, Ferrari and Maserati and I have to say the only time I have walked away shaking after a race was after driving this Maserati.
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Oh that is too funny, 490 hp and 2300lbs. Right.

 

I have included the spec’s on my car you obviously know nothing about the Trofeo. Please allow me to educate you these are the official specs from Italy so, Yes, it's right. BTW these specs are prior to the ECU upgrade:
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She is in fact right. The car was inspected by Maserati & Ferrari and we have it in writing. Say what you want to say. 413hp is a standard option in the "hardtop". Bring the car up to these specs was a task and a small fortune. It is just not the straight pipes it was also the additions and deductions from the cars engine its self. Not to mention the modifications to the suspension through out. The removal of the interior extras such as the stock navi, and controls. Now max interior driver weight being reduced to 300lbs max. This is not stock and is under registration as for “car class show”. Believe what you’d like.

 

style, style, style

the competition for maser in usa is very strong. can choose between porsche, m series bmw, amg, aston martin, jaguar, etc. these choices offer more practicality, reliability reputation, more dealerships, etc. becomes even more difficult when performance and styling is arguably better in other cars also.

imho the easiest path for maser is to base its appeal on pure italian drop dead undebatably gorgeous styling. it doesnt cost more to design a beautiful car than an average one which is all the spider, coupe, and qp really are. that is what will distinguish maser from the competition.

buyers will make concessions regarding almost everything if the car is beautiful. remember ferrari didnt always have best performance (think 1980's)but people always lusted for their styling.

they better hurry up because sedans from porsche and aston are coming soon and they look incredible!