Where were 308 GT4 Built?

FIAT bought 50% of Ferrari's shares in 1969; the agreement, considering what has been said about it (I have never seen the Share Purchase Agreement, or whatever, published...) was quite "soft", by today's standards, as FIAT only claimed a say on the production of road cars; Enzo was left free to control and decide the racing department.
FIAT was to inherit 40% from the 50% Enzo was left with at his death, the last 10% going to Piero.

Rgds

 

Ah, got it, thanks ; interesting, yes. Must have been some kind of a “project”, but very difficult to say which steps were actually achieved on that one; or if it remained a sketch only; or how many sketches like that were produced. Frustrating, again.

I often wonder if the passing of time, and the status of what Ferrari has become today, do not lead us to expect too much? I mean, at the time Ferrari still was a small family firm, without the financial and human ressources of a major automobile producer; after all, in 1970 it was still assembling a grand total of a thousand cars a year. The “historical department” was probably more a closet with a few cardboard boxes, that’s all; so many projects are probably not documented, except in the memory of those “who were there”.

We “enthusiasts” of today often would like to find how a project came into being, how it evolved, how decisions were taken, but the truth is probably that there must have been a number of projects considered, then abandoned; that documents like this one shed a light on some direction, but that, outside an oral witness among the few that were there at the time and are still there today, we will never know for sure…
And it is also a well-known fact that Enzo Ferrari never explained any of his decisions: If we want to stay “more or less” inside the subject of this post, we will never know, for instance, why Enzo Ferrari decided to ask Bertone to do the GT4, instead of the usual Pininfarina?

And as for the V8 engined, two seater Berlinetta, as already written, what we can do today is reverse the course of events: going from the presentation of 308GTB to its inception. But we will probably never know in detail what happened in the years 1971 -74.
The only witness we have had in recent years is the designer of the 308GTB, Leonardo Fioravanti, who said last year in his book that the original sketch for the car was drafted immediately after the sales of the “246 Dino” began, then shelved in or about end 1970-1971 for the work on the “Superberlinetta” to begin, then retrieved at the end of 1974 when Enzo Ferrari phoned him to say that he wanted a two seater successor to the 246GT, and needed it quick.
Fioravanti clearly says that he then retrieved the sketches of 1970-71, worked on these at home after hours, and then here you are: this how the 308GTB came into being in 1975.
He also acknowledges clearly that the sketches of the “BB” are somewhat related to his original work on the first draft for what was to become the “308GTB”, which explains that some of the lines between the two cars show a kind of similarity.
But Fioravanti worked at Pinifarina at the time, not a Ferrari: a part of the V8-engined cars for which he can’t offer much witnessing is the story of the 308GT4.
And which were the projects considered by the factory, but not shared with Pininfarina, how many of these, up to what point, is only a guess…

Rgds

 

Oh I think so too, Alberto: I never believed he was communist, or he had communist sympathies; this was only a reminder that almost anything has been already said about his political views, whereas I think that in fact he doesn’t really have a personal affiliation. And I know what influence the communist party had in politics or even in labor relations after the war; it was, to a certain extent, the same in France (in some activities); you couldn’t act without taking this into account.

I think that what we could be certain of is that he was first and foremost a citizen from Modena, and had a strong liking for the city. Whenever possible, if a man, a provider of any kind, a contractor, etc… could be found in Modena, then he couldn’t see any reason to go outside, and always favored the local solution whenever possible.

For instance, for the racing department, I found the story told by Mauro Forghieri in his last book (“Forghieri on Ferrari&#8221 about how he was hired as an engineer very telling:
Initially, Forghieri actually didn’t want to work at Ferrari, but wanted to go to the United States to work in aeronautics with Lockheed or Northrop. But Enzo knew his father, who had worked at the factory, and knew that his boy had graduated as an engineer, so he insisted to have the boy working for him on a temporary assignment, while he was waiting on an answer from the United States, then offered him more responsibilities, etc…until Forghieri was promoted “Chief designer for the racing department” at only 27.
You cannot escape the impression that it was first and foremost because he knew his father, and that because Forghieri was local, then he trusted him. Of course Forghieri became an exceptional technical director, but first and foremost, he was a local boy.

Rgds

 

The concept of "FIAT-era" cars was, I think, mainly formulated by Michael Sheehan. It is widely accepted today, and yes, the turning point is 1969 indeed.

The "convention", or "general consensus" among "historians" is:
- that the 365 "Daytona" is still an "Enzo-era" car, even if its production began at the time, but it has been conceived before.
- the "Dino 246" is at the turning point, but considered as "more of a FIAT car", because it was FIAT who accepted to build the engine for its homologation, and who suggested that Ferrari should open its range at the bottom.

- the BB and 308GT4 are definitively FIAT era cars.

The FIAT-era stops with the 348. The 355 is from the Luca di Montezemolo era (1993 and onwards).

Rgds

 

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

The only car made (a part) by Fiat is the Dino 206-246, as Fiat produced the engine. Fiat is the Ferrari owner (road cars) since 1967. Montezemolo is (very...) rumored to be a natural son (everybody here knows he is, even if it's not official, of course) of Gianni Agnelli, FIAT CEO until his death. Montezemolo become Ferrari CEO thanks to Fiat CEO Gianni Agnelli. From 1967, without any variation, Fiat is the Ferrrai road cars owner.

We say here that "the Fiat era" starts in 1985 with the 328, as they skipped from the old Ferrari center console metal levers and switches to the "Fiat like" plastic buttons and switches. But it's just a way to say they changed switches, not to say it changed anything in the firm assets.

ciao

 

Alberto,

The distinction between:
- "Enzo era" cars (1947 - 1969);
- then "FIAT Era" cars (1969-1993);
- then "Montezemolo - Era cars" (1993 - ??)
was first introduced, as said above, by noted "connaisseur" Michael Sheehan.

It is widely admitted by most knowledgeable persons up to this day...please read link here enclosed:

https://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/article.php?reqart=SCM_200901_SS

Rgds

 

And we are now beginning the Sweater Era

 

Thanks for that Alberto,

I am driving my GT4 to Maranello for the 70th celebrations next September and will make sure to go and eat at the Trattoria Muzzarelli.

 

Yes indeed; but I'm not very confident with that one...

Rgds

 

Nope: 1969 it is.

Rgds

 

let me know when you are there and I will try to meet you and have a lunch together: which event will you attend?

ciao

I think there are too many people that wrote a lot of stupid things in too many Ferrari books, blog, newspapers, sites and so on.

I always hated the natural son of Gianni Agnelli for what he said about the 348: maybe he never drove a 400 GT Automatic, or he would have said other things. 348 was a great car and hadn't that stupid Yamaha copied five valves heads like "his" 355. That head is the real shame, not the 348. Montezemolo is just part of the Fiat era, 1969 - present.

ciao

 

Yamaha held the patents on that head design and Ferrari paid rights to use it. Yahama did not steal the design.

 

LOL!

 

The VIN change format was a law, passed in 1980.
Or a manufacturing standard, adopted worldwide..

Recall the earlier Ferrari VINS, they DO contain 5 pointed stars!
I teased my insurance I could add those in, but it still would not please their computer, looking for the longer format.

F106AB*22127*

That's how it looks in the frame rail....

 

In fact I wrote that Ferrari copied Yahaha, not that Yamaha copied Ferrari: FZ750 came out much earlier than 355.

It was a shame that Ferrari copied Yamaha idea (patent) and paid to have a bad head, that was later abandoned to come back to the four valves.

"Montezemolo" era: the 348 head was better and cheaper than "his" 355 one

ciao

 

No idea what is happening yet, only that the event is 8-10 Sept.I have booked Planet Hotel from the Thursday to the Monday and Montana on the Friday evening. Everything else is free. Would be great to meet.

 

Great thread, very informative. Nice to see you trying to put the forgotten history together.

Always loved the GT4, glad to finally see them getting the admiration they deserve.