Where will all the race cars go?

don't forget that they are quite ugly too. will never be as sexy as a 312t.

fast yes but so what.

 

The technology and its maintenance is one aspect and a good question you raise.

My question is: Where are all these cars actually going?

We have now a dozen teams with 2 cars each and several spares and iterations of these cars. I'm guessing each team has at least 2 spare cars. So each year there are at least 50 new F1 cars being built.

The historics series goes to the eighties, the BOSS series from then on, but here in the States I don't see a whole lot of BOSS series cars (Road America normally has small group like 3 cars).

So:
Where are all those 1,000+ F1 cars that have been built since 1990?

I realize the teams keep normally a car for their collection, but what about the rest? Are they all being warehoused some place???

 

i thought some of the cars are sold, some are taken apart and used for more testing and parts. usually one makes it to the museum

 

You are absolutely right, but: Just do the numbers, where are all these cars?

Are there that many private collections we never hear or see about with these cars? Where is the HRT/Virgin/Sauber/etc museum?

Even when it comes to less obscure teams like Ferrari or McLaren, one has to wonder where are all the cars? That famous hall at Maranello with the cars of the Clienti program only IIRC has one car per season. Where are the other 4? Galleria has maybe one car per season on display, in reality more like one per decade of F1 racing.

I have been to many museums around the world and seen some of the cars, but it never adds up to what has to be out there.

BTW: I could say the same thing about the historic F1 cars, but there I think we have slightly different factors: Many of those cars/parts were reused the following season, many crashed and burnt and there wasn't a sense of keeping them (look at Napolis P3/4 car and story). But that time has passed. Today we know that all these cars are worth their weight in gold and are instant classics and collectibles. And the teams build completely new cars from scratch every year (well, maybe not Super Aguri...). So where are they?

 

I think McLaren keeps an example of each of their old F1 cars in a warehouse.

F1 cars used to be given to some of the drivers at the end of the season. Some drivers would sell them. That was when they had no value to the manufacturers at the end of a season.

As to the rest, I think most are just taken apart and recycled.

 

Some are turned to show cars for display/promo purposes.

 

Disassemble.
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Re Super Best Friends.

Firstly, and I'm splitting hairs here a little, I don't think they build 4-5 cars per season anymore - Unless one gets destroyed (Nicks burnt Renault is the only one this year for example) I guess they do 4 tubs (of which one is a spare at the track) but these may never get built up. Seb should be driving "Kinky Keily" all season for example.

So, more like 30 per year. [I mentioned I'm splitting hairs ]

Anyway, the real reason for the post was I disagree that "they're worth their weight in gold and are instant classics" - Outside of the WDC winning car they're actually pretty much worthless - Old racing cars, particularly todays incarnations that need 10 guys & a ton of support equipment to get 'em going aren't "useful" to anyone outside of a museum....

I think most of 'em get stripped to become show cars or are, quite simply, scrapped. Oops, sorry, "recycled" in PC terms

Cheers,
Ian

 

Am I the only one who sees a golden opportunity here? Why aren't they bought up and converted into something that doesn't need a standing army to operate? Where is the David Piper of today installing modern Cossies and a standard gearbox into every one of them?

 

I'd love to see it happen.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

I hear you, but the modern Cossie also needs an army, and the old one (+ a Hewland 'box) simply won't fit!..... OK, I guess it *could* be done, but then it's no longer "original" and hence is completely valueless!......

I think another issue is they're now built so "delicately" with many parts having a design life of a few races at best that "old" ones would fall apart. It just doesn't make sense to keep 'em around

Cheers,
Ian

 

Ferrari, and I would think also Mclaren, invites certain clients and gives them the opportunity to purchase a retired F1 car as long as they do not use it. Must quietly stay in their private display/museum. And these clients actually fork up the $million+ it costs.

Oh to have such disposable income.

 

A better question would be "What use would they fulfil?". A modern car will barely accomodate Tony Stewart, Mark Webber. So you would need to be 1) uber rich, 2) of slight build, 3) an accomplished driver. Then exactly where would you find to go with your car (and support)? What tires would you use? Certainly nothing from the original suppliers. Most venues have noise restrictions which would not allow for modern cars use. Any big events such as Goodwood are more interested in cars and drivers with a history. Go to any concours events, the general public probably never stop to look at ANY racecar.

As mentioned, outside of maybe 1 or 2 chassis from some of the teams, the rest are dumpster fillers.

Even the 'garagiste' cars running around in HGP over here or the TGP in Europe are run maybe 5-6 times a year and at best 12-15 cars at a time. And they were the last built that you 'could' run by yourself at only $50-60 per mile.

 

Unbelievable!

What's the point of that? Geez.

Ad 1)
If they're using them as dumpster fillers as you say, I don't think you have to be uber rich to buy one.

Ad 2)
Any F1 car can be modified to accomodate tall and heavy drivers. You make the fuel tank smaller or take out some of the padding. Historic F1 cars cut holes in the sides where the pelvis bones go. I've seen it done, not an obstacle.

Ad 3)
The most current F1 car I drove was a 96 IIRC car and it was no big deal. And I'm definitely not an accomplished driver. Just made it out of Skip Barber's school. And the more modern cars have even more technical wizardry to help the driver. A friend of mine drove an ex Barrichello Ferrari in Fiorano and was underwhelmed by how it felt. His Can Am McLaren gives him a much bigger workout.

Plenty of local race tracks around with open days. If people can run their Ferrari SP333, why not bring your F1? I'd say there are easily a half dozen events around my town each summer. And that's probably conservative.

The Arrows I drove had grooved Bridgestone Potenzas. That was back in 2007 so they must be available. The Historic GP guys run on fresh slicks, so they must be getting them from somewhere too.

The Historic F1 GP cars as well as the modern F1 GP cars are always THE attraction at Road America's Brian Redman International Challenge. Whether they are a Ferrari or "just" a Tyrrell.

I respect your comments because I know you have a lot more technical expertise than me. However I truly fail to see why or at least why it has to be that way: Couldn't for instance Cosworth come up with a "turn key" version of their engine? Take away a couple hundred hp, who cares? Replace all the finnicky bits with more standard stuff and make it simpler?

I remember years (if not decades) ago Porsche installed one of its car engines into a small plane (think Cessna). And it worked. Instead of the whole long hoopla of warming up your Lycoming, the pilot just turned the ignition and took off.

 

A Ferrari with a Cosworth engine would hold no appeal to someone with money and taste to own a Ferrari F1 car.

Ferrari already have a brilliant and thriving corse clienti / f1 clienti program of such nature.
http://www.ferrari.com/English/Scuderia/F1_Clienti/Pages/F1_Clienti.aspx

Read page 42 onwards here...
http://www.ferrari.com/Italian/Scuderia/Corse_Clienti/Challenge_Italia/Documents/Catalogo_Corse_Clienti_2011.pdf

Most of the Mclaren's end up in the trash can, where they belong... I mean recycled like below...

 

I think you guys have your build totals too high. According to what I know/read the teams build about ten complete cars each year. In the case of Ferrari they use most in the Corse Clienti program, and some are put in the Ferrari museum or sold outright. I know some eight F1-2000's were made, one was sold privately, one is in the museum and the rest are in Corse Clienti as far as I know.

 

They go to...

The factory/team for showroom display
The driver as a gift (Panis got a Toyota at end of his career)
The warehouse for longterm storage (Williams, McLaren, etc)
Collectors (i.e. Aaron Hsu that bought like 20+ Williams cars and a Senna McLaren MP4/4 among others)
Dealers that convert them with other engines (Jordan F1 seems to be popular)
Converted to showcars for sponsors to take around or the random Minardi in an airport
Museums
Destroyed in accidents
"recycled"

List of Williams cars: http://www.f1carstoday.net/sida/Cars/Williams.htm
List of McLaren cars: http://www.f1carstoday.net/sida/Cars/McLaren.htm
List of Ferrari cars: http://www.f1carstoday.net/sida/Cars/Ferrari.htm

etc...

 

A Ferrari 333SP won several endurance races powered by a Judd instead of it's original Ferrari engine and everybody loved it.

The Clienti program actually lets you drive your F1.

 

Sounds more like we have the build totals too low: I estimated 5 cars per team per season, you are putting the number at twice that hence even more making our point

 

The old HRT cars will be going to Go kart tracks around the world to be used as kiddie cars.

 

Keep in mind this is above and beyond the corse cliente program. Not everyone wants to drive their new Ferrari race toy usually because they are old codgers, and Ferrari does not want all of them to drive them anyway. Most of these cars are really not as originally raced, proprietory parts/programs are removed, so many of these cars would be an embarrassment in some historic race.

Hence, museum pieces.

The people that buy these cars are very happy to participate. They are also the ones that will be eligible for those very special limited production street Ferraris, along with future FXX programs. If I had that kind of money, I would be happy to have been able to purchase MS's 2001 Monza car, which is actually being raced.

 

Yeah well my dumbass thought you were talking about one team. FYI don't browse FChat while drinking at a BBQ no matter how bored you are LOL.

 

correct...and wow did it sound unreal!!!!! that judd engine was pretty cool!!!!

pcb