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Which classic to buy?

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by SFchallenge, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. SFchallenge

    SFchallenge F1 World Champ

    Jun 28, 2004
    11,930
    Sgp, KL, HK & London
    Full Name:
    Jon Wijaya
    Dear fellow Fchatters. I hope I'm posting in the right thread here but at least it's the classic section.

    I'm budgeting a modest US$70K for a classic & I'm open to anything from pre-75 but preferably 60s. I would love to raise the money but the problem is my country, Singapore charges me about 130% extra for duties for a car that I can only use 28days a year on subsidised road tax! So, it is effectively a US$160k car cash paid :( Only good reason is that the British pounds is weak now.

    It's fine by me on the usage as I have a few daily drivers so this will be something garaged & for dry days. It has to be factory RHD but I might do a LHD if it's really special. It doesn't need to be concours but a well looked after or previously restored unit would be great.

    I've shortlisted:

    Maserati 3500GT Sebring
    Jaguar XK120-150s
    Jaguar E types either marks but preferbly a roadster
    Ferrari 330/365 GT 2+2 etc
    BMW3.0 CSL???
    Countach, 512, Aston V8 can also be considered.

    I just acquired a mint 94 456GT to keep. Using a 997TT or X3 as daily & another 964 American roadster (which I may sell).

    Please give me any recommendations that you may have & why u think it's a good keep. Thanks!
     
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  3. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,077
    Central NJ
    Can you buy a project at a lower price, import it and then do the restoration? Would this give you favorable tax treatment? Considering the 130% tax rate, this may be a case where restoration makes financial sense.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  4. glasser1

    glasser1 Formula Junior

    Sep 2, 2006
    510
    Oregon
    #3 glasser1, Mar 3, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
    Austin Healey 100S - only 55 made. Gorgeous cars and 0 to 60 in 7.8s was pretty good for 1955. Fully restored they have sold for US$140k, but in this market and not fully restored they might be found for considerably less? The 100M was less power and 640 were built so they are easier to find. Still spendy but such a beautiful car and so much fun to drive!
     
  5. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    20,700
    Fullerton, California
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    Jon
    #4 Bullfighter, Mar 3, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
    I considered the XK120 and 140 roadsters, but they really are very antique in feel. (But beautiful cars.)

    Look at the Porsche 356. Not sure what prices are like in Singapore, but in the U.S. you can get a great coupe for $50K, and a good open car for $100K. They're fantastic to drive (considering their age) and fairly durable.

    For US$70K, a Series 2 Jag E-Type is probably doable as well, and not a bad choice.
     
  6. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    20,700
    Fullerton, California
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    Jon
    This is a great idea. It actually makes sense in California, given that cars are taxed at their sale value, and services (e.g., restoration labor) are not taxed here.
     
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  8. Future ferrari collector

    Oct 12, 2006
    1,780
    The problem with Singapore is that to maximise tax revenues, the classics brought in must be in pristine condition, no barn finds allowed. Smart eh?
     
  9. cdu

    cdu Karting

    May 30, 2007
    77
    Do they tax you on the sale price or do they appraise the car's value at the time it's imported?

    If it is based on the sale price, buy a basket case, ship it to NZ, fix it up, then take the now-shiny car home and pay the taxes on the price you paid to buy the rust and title.
     
  10. Bakes56

    Bakes56 Rookie

    Mar 6, 2008
    26
    Illinois
    Full Name:
    Mark Baker
    Here is some info from the March '09 Sports Car Market:

    Prices for the 100S have paced the overall rise in Austin-Healey values, and 100Ss rarely make it to auction. Jarick paid $500 for his first 100S (chassis 3701) in 1970, and the same car was sold in 2008—by the fourth subsequent owner—for the Australian equivalent of $563,000. As a shorter-term investment, recent years have been equally kind, as demonstrated by the purchase just two years ago of one of the non-Works cars (chassis 3603) for $235,000, and its sale in March 2008 for $472,000. It was offered by its American owner, and the English buyer was found within 48 hours.

    Other notable 100S sales include two of the few remaining unrestored examples. In the past year, Craig Hillinger both bought and sold the second one built (chassis 3502) for $500,000. Last year Hillinger bought another unrestored car (chassis 3804) from a private estate for $400,000. Although the car is in need of a total restoration, it has a particularly interesting history, and with prices headed upwards, it would be difficult to say that he paid too much, perhaps just bought too soon. Hillinger is also restoring chassis 3706 for a customer.

    I think this is out of his budget.
     
  11. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    20,700
    Fullerton, California
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    Jon
    True, but a 100/4 would be within his budget.
     
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  13. xs10shl

    xs10shl Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2003
    2,017
    San Francisco
    Unless you are planning on doing your own wrenching, you might consider who in your vicinity can service which marque, and if they know how to get spare parts.

    I'd venture to say that a number of the cars on your list are probably not going to be available in the $70K range in the kind of condition that you describe - perhaps a SII E-type as has already been mentioned is a great option. Easy to work on, easy to get parts for, very reliable when used as a sculpture, etc, etc.
     
  14. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2008
    32,707
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    Rich
    For $70K a fantastic E-Type S1 FHC or SII OTS could be purchased. I always preferred the coupe to the roadster, and the S1 aesthetics over the SII, but you could hardly do wrong with either.

    Better car than just about anything for this price and vintage.
     
  15. Imola82

    Imola82 Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2007
    598
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Stu
    What about a 3000 BJ8 (big Healy)? Not a Kurt Tanner restored example, but there are other fine restoration shops popping out nice examples for roughly $65-85.

    I realize AH wasn't mentioned as an option from the op, but they are one of the most beautiful cars ever made and current market is in that price range.
     
  16. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ
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    My old man owned a big Healey (3000). Great looking car, lots of memories from my childhood in that thing.

    I always thought they were crude in comparison to the E-Type. I guess it's a matter of preference - you get a little more exclusivity with the Healey, but the performance of the E-Type wins out for me.
     
  17. Imola82

    Imola82 Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2007
    598
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Stu
    My dad had a Red 65' mark III. He sold it about 30 years ago. He's been talking about getting it back ever since. I'm sure he will get it back sometime soon.
     
  18. SFchallenge

    SFchallenge F1 World Champ

    Jun 28, 2004
    11,930
    Sgp, KL, HK & London
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    Jon Wijaya
    Thanks guys. I could import & get taxed on a rust bucket then do the restoration here as I've seen a 190SL in pieces. I'm a little handy man & like projects but time is not my best friend so it's best that someone else did the job 1st. Besides, our govt give us 3 years to get it done & register it!

    Engine capacity is no issue, so the bigger the better :)

    For Ferraris, these are what I can consider:

    http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C115936/

    http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C129213/

    http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C90598/

    At the moment, Jaguar E type roadsters seem most affordable but most classics seem to have inched up on their values over the years. All those that I lusted 5 years ago are now in mid 6 figures :(

    I'm beginning to look @ those big healeys & they do have racng history. Will check it out.

    Please keep the ideas & experience coming in. Thanks.
     
  19. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,077
    Central NJ
    Import a beater 250GTE, 330 GT or 330 GTC (GTE and GT are doable at that price, GTC would have to be really rough. Import to Singapore pay taxes, register, etc (get it running, if necessary). Then send to NZ for full restoration (see Lusso restoration thread). This just might work better for you financially and it will save an otherwise neglected car.

    If you decide to go down this path, I suspect that several of us would be able to point you in the correct direction with regards to finding appropriate cars.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  20. xs10shl

    xs10shl Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2003
    2,017
    San Francisco
    I prefer the S1 coupe as well. I honestly didn't think a good one could be found in that range any more, but perhaps so. The last few full retoratons I've seen at auction were approaching cab money - well deserved in my opinion.
     
  21. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    I've owned or experienced most of the cars on the OP's list, and IMO nothing remotely compares to an E-type. Reasons:

    - handling is light and beautifully precise;
    - power;
    - advanced design similar to contemporaneous sport-racers;
    - every element of the car is simply beautiful;
    - every part is now available from multiple suppliers;
    - except for rust/body issues, restoration/maintenance costs are very reasonable and controllable;
    - easy availability of RHD.

    Agree with xs10shl that a really good original or restored S1 roadster or coupe is now beyond the OP's stated acquisition cost, but there is a reasonable supply out there to find the right buy. I personally would not buy anything but an S1 (full disclosure: I have a '67 OTS, replacing the '66 I sold in 1972).

    My recommendation to the PO would be to look for an S1 in New Zealand and have it cleaned up by one of the terrific shops there. I'm now having parts made in NZ for an early postwar Italian car, and thus far the quality and price appear unbeatable.
     
  22. johnaz

    johnaz Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2009
    273
    Carefree, AZ/Anchorage, Alaska
    Full Name:
    John Schwamm
    I've got a really nice 1964 XKE coupe, all redone and perfect. Engine is all upgraded with stainless headers, webers, five speed, minilites, wilwood discs, and more, needs nothing and about 1000 miles since all done. $68,000. Looks great next to my 612 and really goes for that vintage.

    John 480.766.9990
     
  23. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 4, 2008
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    Rich
    I got my 66 E-Type coupe - with repairs to get it roadworthy - for under 30k. It isn't perfect, but it's not a beater either.
     
  24. nct

    nct Karting

    Nov 6, 2003
    64
    Guangzhou, China
    Full Name:
    Neil
  25. Future ferrari collector

    Oct 12, 2006
    1,780
    You're sure we can bring rust buckets in? I thought that LTA list said only pristine condition and not cars that needed work. So as to maximise the tax screw on us. If yes, then I'll go your way and restore local.
     
  26. Future ferrari collector

    Oct 12, 2006
    1,780
  27. david91107

    david91107 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2008
    1
    Interesting. Nobody thinks the CSL is in the running here ?
     
  28. targanero

    targanero Formula 3

    May 31, 2005
    1,647
    New York
    Full Name:
    Simon
    My advice is to wait if you can. Prices have only started coming down and we're nowhere near the trough - especially for the cars you're considering.
     

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