Which comes first: Plane Ticket or PPI?

I'm sort of on the fence for looking for my dream 348.

I live in the San Francisco Area and most cars I've done research on is always a minimum of a few states Eastward. At the same time, I'm pressed for free time as work has kept me from going and looking over said vehicle(s). I've gotten the seller to provide me many, many digital pictures of the vehicle and so far I'm pleased with what has been shown.

Do I go out and make travel arrangements to see the vehicle first and then arrange for a PPI (if I decide to make a purchase)? Or do I make arrangements for a PPI first, then if all is good, make travel arrangements to view vehicle?

At first, I thought, go see vehicle. If you like it, settle on a fair price that is contingent upon a successfull PPI, of which I would arrange.

Then as I thought more and more about it, I thought, why waste my free time and money when I should just hire a mechanic to do a PPI for me first and get his professional opinion on the mechnicals/cosmetics and maybe some independent digital pictures. If mechanic blesses said vehicle, then make the travel plans to see vehicle for myself and make an offer.

My goal is to save time, money and fustration. So for those who once faced similiar issues, your insights would be appreciated!

 

my fellow fchatters with more experience will reply I'm sure, but for me, I'd do the PPI first and then see if an fchatter in the area could swing by to take a look to provide you some feedback, then I'd make travel arrangements.

 

For me, I view personal inspection as top priority and PPI as necessary before purchase. Not to put anyone down, but the person doing the PPI is simply looking at a car. Being objective and impartial is exactly what you want in a PPI. But the asthetics, driving, and sense for how the car was treated I think are better left up to you. If you think you found the right car, then the PPI helps make sure there are no nasty surprises after the sale.

I view it much the same as purchasing a house, albeit perhaps one in the historic district. Most everyone finds the house they want first, then the inspection comes after the offer is accepted. And, typically a good offer will be contingent on the inspection not finding more then $N in needed repairs to the home.

Just my $.02.

Seamus

 

I think you could probably arrange both at the same time.When I was looking I spoke to the local mechanic first on the phone then explained that I was traveling from out of state and had to line them both up.There are alot of things you could learn about what to ask the owner over the phone.I think most ferrari owners a pretty honest about there cars ,after all this a very small community and word gets around fast about someone thats a little shady. I'm sure you heard of a few already. So to answer your question I think you could talk to the owner and have them bring the car to your chosen mechanic in his area and just arange to meet him there.I think thats the safest way.Then you can see the car get the ppi done ,then negeociate the price all in few hours.Sorry abou the spelling. Good luck.

 

I disagree. I would definitely do the PPI first.

1. Your time is valuable. why look at a car a PPI may exclude.
2. PPI will uncover things that you may have missed, and give you thing to check. stone chips that were repaired, wear on seat bolster, dash fit.... having the ppi point you at some things to look at can let you decide whether it bothers you.
3. if the trip includes air travel,... PPI like less money

My vote: PPI first.

edit: Just for complete clarity, after PPI still go see the car.

 

Ideally, both, if you've done the homework and feel like this is the one. I had to do the PPI with no plane trip, but a fellow tom yang member/fchatter was in CA and on top of the situation.

 

I think that before you get to the stage of booking a flight and getting a PPI done, you should have as much info on the car already and you are near ~80% plus to closing the deal. And if you are at that point, the question of, "PPI or plane ticket?", can be likened to, "...Chicken or the egg?"

Outside of Modena/Maranello, California is the Ferrari Capital of the World. Unless you are absolutely convinced that the out-of-state car you're checking out is THE one for you, why pay for a plane ticket when the perfect car might be just a short drive away? Pics are great but seeing with your own two eyes is invaluable.

If time and/or money are constraints, you'd be better served casting a smaller net. You CAN save time and money in your search. Unfortunately the frustration flows steadily UNTIL the right car comes along.

I'm sure you didn't reach the threshold of Ferrari ownership by throwing money away. Just as you should have all the answers before you stroke the check for your new F-car; you too should have as many questions answered and be at a good comfort level before you decide to spend money for the plane ticket or the PPI.

Visualize the Plane ticket and PPI as an independent financial expenditure and apply your regular decision-making criteria to it. Like other expdenditures you make, you only do so if it makes sense, right?

Like you I spent hours going back and forth asking myself these same questions late last year when I was looking around for my car.

I live in the Washington DC area and I considered cars that were in NJ, FL, and MO. After talking with each prospective seller, all I wanted to do was hop on the first plane out to check out the cars in person. But after asking some more questions and checking out the records/pictures for each car, I managed to learn enough to quash that need to fly out.

In the end I went with the car from FoCNJ. Took a day trip out to NJ to see it, hemmed and hawed, but eventually manned up and trailered s/n 75912 home. No plane trip. No PPI.

That's right, I bought it w/no PPI! I have to say though, that the car had complete documents, was fresh out from a major service, and Chris Miele, of FoCNJ came HIGHLY recommended. GREAT people over there at FoCNJ, btw. But that was a one-in-a-million scenario and would recommend anyone buying a Ferrari to always have a PPI done.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your search!


AP

 

PPI first, what a waste it would be to get out there and have to come all the way back pissed



E

 

Thats a tough one. I can see logic in both sides of this issue. When I bought mine I went to see the car first to see if I wanted to even take the time to have the PPI done. Someone else can surely look the car over for you and can give thier opinion but it still will only be thier opinion and not yours. Either way thier is a good chance the plane ticket will be spent either way if the car is mechanicly acceptable and cosmeticially acceptable in someones eye. Then when you get there you may not agree with thier opinion. I kinda liked the idea of having the PPI schedualed at the same time frame you go see the car. Then you can make the call to have it done after you see the car and have the oppertunity to cancel the appointment at that time if you done like the car. I guess it really comes down to what your actually comfortable with.

Rambling on...

DT
_______________________________________

There is nothing like a Ferrari, there never has been and never will be!

 

All 9 Ferraris I bought were purchased sight unseen, most with PPI's, and never was dissappointed. If all records and Carfax checkout OK, just have a Ferrari owner inspect your car, save your money for when you get it.

Stephane
Scaledetails

 

You guys that PPI first -- how do you work that out?

"Hello, I'm interested in your 3x8 for sale. I don't know how much I'm going to offer for it, but can you drive it to XYZ for a 6 hour PPI?"

Or, XYZ is 50 miles away. Do you pay the extra for them to flat bed it from the owner's house and back -- another $200 plus $500 for a PPI?

Seriously -- just wondering how you made this work.

Thanks,
Seamus

 

Depends on the ticket price, but I'd probably do the PPI first: if there's big stuff wrong you can then move on.

I bought mine sight unseen (it was inspected and then had the 30K major service). In hindsight, I wouldn't do that again, although in my case things turned out well. I am paying to have the front bumper resprayed - the "4 or 5 stone chips" turned out to be more than that - and I also replaced a couple of minor trim pieces that were missing and a broken switch. Not big money, but definitely the kinds of things I would've caught in an in-person inspection.

A lot of this has to do with my standards, but I'm guessing most people on this board have a low tolerance for chips, scratches, etc.

 

Generally I write a check. That's how I took care of the PPI for the car I bought in Minnesota, and I'm in California.

 

Do you know anything about cars? If so, I'd fly out and do my own PPI as far as driving it, checking all the electrical, brakes etc. There are good guides on line that have like 50 items to check on a car. I doubt a PPI will be any better than a sharp eye. Does it smoke? Can you accelerate in 3rd at a low speed without the clutch slipping? Rust? Cosmetic condition okay?

If you feel really helpless around cars, then do the PPI first. It sounds like you have more money than time so spend what you have and save what you don't.

Of course, if a list member can look at it first, it may save a trip AND a PPI if it's junk.

Ken

 

Ken, I agree. I'd fly out and do my own complete, nitpicking PPI before the mechanic even looked at it. There's plenty of minutiae that they will overlook...not knocking the good shops but it seems that they take a broad brush approach.

 

You want to save time and money???

Skip the PPI. Skip the flight out there. Send them a document with a "50 point inspection" for them to attest to. You can ask them questions like "List every nick/chip/imperfection larger than the head of an eraser on a #2 pencil." Or as simple as "Has this car ever been repainted in its existence??". Or does it drip/leak/seep oil??

I did that. Have them sign it and send it back. Have the seller include a copy of their driver's license. The guy I bought the car from had EVERY document on a PDF file and sent it to me for my review. I got to spend days going through it. All work was done at Ferrari of San Francisco. And it was ALL done on time. He took CLOSE pics of the car from EVERY inch at 4 megapixel resolution. They were as clear as if I were standing by it.

What more would going out there have done?? I asked all of the "drive-time" questions regarding braking, driving, does the car pull, etc.

LIke the previous poster said, have an FChat member go check it out for you. They probably know of the car already anyway.

So I saved myself on the PPI and the flight out and back. Probably saved close to $2k when all was said and done.

Leak-down tests are only as good as the guy doing them. Not to mention, he would have probably taken it to F of San Fran where he knew all the guys anyway. Like THEY were going to wreck his sale.....

Some guys feel all warm and fuzzy inside when they get a mechanic to tell them that the car is in good shape. Most of the time their PPI is done by looking things over. Some of them, if you are "lucky", will even take your future car out and beat on it a bit.

Save your time and money and use that $2k for any repairs that MIGHT come up regardless of the PPI. It is a truly a WASTE of time and money!!!

 

If you are anal retentive about cosmetics, inspect it first. O/w PPI first and then negotiate. If you have enough faith in the PPI, but sight unseen. Better yet, have the PPI while you are there. Bring money, drive home.

Dave

 

What ever you do, don't fall in love with the car until the PPIer gives you the go ahead. Otherwise you end up settleing for problems just because. Best get the PPI first. You know what they look like. Have the mechanic give you feedback on cosmetics too.

 

This was discussed in another thread (yours?), about whether PPI's are worth the money, but as you said it depends on your confidence in your ability to diagnose problems. In the case of a Ferrari, it can be expensive if you miss something. It can also be an emotional moment and a really bad time to try to do a clinical assessment of the car.

A slipping clutch or plumes of blue smoke from the tailpipes are obvious things I can verify, and it's the same for any car. I don't know, however, that I could judge whether the engine has good or low or even compression across all 8 cylinders (assuming no significant smoke). There may be items under the car that require an informed walkaround while the car is on a lift (although you'd prefer zero leaks, not all oil leaks are equally expensive to correct.)

Not to say a PPI is always necessary. I could see skipping the third-party PPI, for example, if you're buying the car from a Ferrari dealer and they have gone over it. In general, I don't feel comfortable recommending that someone new to the 348 game to go off and do his own inspection to save $400-$500.

Nice option because you learn about the car... might as well get educated if you're paying the guy.

 

have local fchatter or local someone who knows what they are looking at go inspect like they would for themselves, drive it and if possible take pics of the nits. if it passes this test, pay for the ppi. get tech to take all kinds of pics showing every nit they find outside, inside, underneath, on top, etc. then decide to buy it or don't. and stay home either way. otoh, if you must see it and close enough to drive home. go see it, make final inspection, buy it or not and if buy it drive home. the only car i went to see before i bought it was my fiat dino from catania, italy. i think it is tougher with older cars not to actually go see it. i have bought many cars using the above method without seeing it personally and haven't been dissappointed yet.

 

What you are saying makes the most sense so far to me. As long as you don't have stars in your eyes and it checks out as a solid car, seems unlikely you will have a catastrophic failure the day after you buy it.

Anyone care to share cases where the PPI turned up nasty surprises that eluded personal inspection?

Seamus