which CV joint should see more wear . .inner or outer?

the outer???

 

I'm talking about the actual CV joint . . .not the boot.

Had my car since 1995 . . in 2004 I swapped the outer to the inside locations 'cause there was visible wear/divots in the outers . .. someone mentioned to do this . . they weren't clanking or anything.


I started getting some clanking under WOT pulls so figured it was time to replace . .. the outers which were the inners still have barely any wear . . just polished . no divots . . and that's with 20-25k miles of very very spirited driving donuts etc. . . the inners (which were the outers when I bought the car) are trashed . . . I'll post pics of the insides . . I'm just shocked how little wear is in the now outer units . . was wondering if they were replaced by PO back in the 90's or if there's a massive wear difference between the inner and outer . . . you'd think the inners would see more heat but thinking about the force flow it seems like the outer "reacts" against engine power first.

I'll post some pics . . .

cheers

 

both inner and outer? . . did you take 'em apart or just try and feel 'em? . . I've found it's practically impossible to tell they're shot from feel . .unless it's when they have play . . which isn't what I've been told repeatedly. . .. my 911 race car has a ton of play and divots wore in 'em but no clunking.

As another side note bought the CV's from the local dune buggy guys for $69/pc . . the real Lobros . .. and they stock the CV boot and the flange if that's messed up.

cheers

 

no I didn't . .. here's why . . I've modded a lot of these for the dune buggy guys . . . if you take apart a brand new one you cannot get it back together with the stock balls .. what do they do? . . put in "made in China" .001" undersize balls so they slide easier . . . dune buggy guys do not car about slop at all . . in fact the spline even plunges on the inside star of the CV . .it's not captured with a snap ring/spring like Ferrari and Porsche.


Once they've broke in I might lighten the outer housing when I repack 'em in a few years.

Mine all felt sloppy but visually the wear inside was amazing between the inner and outer . . take yours apart and check 'em out . . see if there's a big wear difference on the inside . . as I said earlier one of mine could've been replaced by PO if others see uniform wear.

cheers

 

the machining didn't effect putting 'em back together . . all I do is radius the edges so they can travel further . . . they were just really really snug . . . and that's why the buggy guy told me "that's why we put the undersize balls in" .. . 2 of the new joints were so snug (edit: like so snug they did not freely "swivel" in your hand) I was feeling some vibration when I was breaking 'em in last night . . . by the end of the drive all was smoothe again.

log the "undersize ball" thing away should you have one come apart that's a total PITA to get back together .

cheers

 

the first 2 pics are the driver side inner that felt the worst by hand .. but it was the driver side outer 'til 2004 .. pic 3 is the outer which was starting to show some gauling but that was before I relocated it to the outside . .. the wear from the new location is just polished.

pic 4 & 5 is passenger outer closest to the exhaust pipe (was the inner 'til 2004) .. just a little pitting on one of the surfaces .. pic 5 gets me all excited when I see wear like that after years of fun.


massive difference in wear .. .so wondering if this is 'cause some were replaced at some point or lack of grease/broken boot at some point? . .. pic 4 & 5 of the outer which I thought sees the most wear next to the pipe is seeing very little wear IMO and I know it's been in that location since 2004 .. .always plenty of grease and a good boot though.

also to re-itterate I saw pits on the inners that are trashed when I moved them to the inboard location back in 2004 . .. which I thought was seeing less wear .. . could just be that the 2 inners were replaced before I bought the car and keeping them properly greased and sealed is the key . . and moving the already wore ones to the inside just accelerated there demise.

anyway thought enough about this unless someone else wants to geek out on it .

but would like to hear the industry standard on when you replace 'em . . when they clunk or have play? . . . my 911 CV's look like this . .. . I asked at the P club and just seems like people run 'em 'til they break . . .seems like some serious unncessary shock load when they get loose and then the clunking at failure was scarey . . the dune buggy guys don't worry about the clunking period . .. they even told me don't worry about the pits! . . talk about running to failure!!!

cheers
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gotta love mass production . . .look at the surface finish the balls run on . . . it works though . . . if I made those it'd be a mirror finish . . be a bit more pricey though . . glad they're lasting.


cheers

 

aaaah . .. yeah . . . but like I said the outers were like that in 2004 and they weren't clunking . .. not quite as bad . . and I put easily 20k on since then of hard miles . .. so is it smart just to replace at the first sign of this wear? . . . I would think so but doesn't sound like too many people even look inside 'em . . . . I bet they look like this in most cars way before they clunk?

cheers

 

dude .. no I mean the gauling/brinneling/wear .. . they have the crappy finish I'm sure when they go in the box . . . the wear is different ... that's what I'm referring to 'bout clunking.


cheers

 

chatting with one of my dune buggy buddies today he said he see's the outers trashed way before the inners

edit: but not a concern for those of 'ya that use your friggin' Ferrari for getting icecream LOL

 

well my buddy brought over the "race prepped" CV's from Chenowth (or whatever that company is) . . . maybe I posted this but they were not polished in the area I'm referring to . . they put in .002" undersize balls from China to properly clearance 'em and also install a chromoly cage that road race guys I don't think ever break anyway . . . the buggy guys run those CV's way looser than I think we would want to out of the box.

the really pathetic mod that they were proud of was clearancing the outside shape of the inner star to allow it to rotate further for more travel .. . a "skilled" laborer performs this operation with a 4" grinder by eye . . .what a joke!!! . . some of 'em had .25" taken off . . some of 'em had .100" taken off so they still rubbed . . . we took 'em apart and machined the feature like a business would do . . .my buddy installed two of 'em and that side doesn't clack . . Chenowth told him the clacking is normal . . . "that's how Ricky runs 'em" . . . . he wants me to mod CV joints for him to sell . . . . . . .. "Why" . . I asked him

 

thanks .. I just bought the German Lobros and ran 'em as is . .. I'll pass that on to my buddy too.


my original post was also to show how one of the joints which was in the outer "hard wearing" position (I now believe) had very little wear .. I know it's been in that location since 2004 and I installed my rebuilt motor in 2006 .. got almost 350 hrs on her since then and really no signs of trauma .. . . the other joints had the wear when I rotated them and if anything I think this is caused by broken boots/no lube.

sure would like to hear what others see if they ever re-pack 'em . . this part sees so much abuse.

cheers